Seekins or Fierce

[Metzger]

e 300wm Havak PH1s, the first was warrantied and I haven't been able to get the second to shoot well consistently with any bullet I actually want to use in it. Folks seem to have better results in the lighter chamberings but I can't recommend a 300 wm or PRC based on my experience.

I had the same results in a 300PRC

 

[david2duck]

We now have 2 elements in 6.5prc, 1 Havak in 28nos, 3 Havak in .300wm, and a Havak in 6.5cm. Every single one shoots great (3 shot groups 1/2” or better). Both PRC’s shoot the factory 143/147’s lights out. We’re running hand loaded 195’s for the 28. The .300wm are shooting the factory 200 eldx slightly over 1/2” and under that with some 215’s from unknown munitions. The 6.5cm really likes the factory 143 eldx.

 

[Brianc74]

Seekins all the way

 

[YBPS]

I wouldn’t have a Fierce if they gave me one for free. Those guys are clowns.

 

[JoeB]

I have a Seekins PH1 in 6.5 PRC love it

 

[wind gypsy]

I wouldn’t have a Fierce if they gave me one for free. Those guys are clowns.

Can you tell us more?

 

[tm7554]

Bought an action from them. Hundreds of dollars in shipping alone to make it eject. Nothing they could do to make it eject clean. High rings were the only possibility. Sold the action. Feed great. Trigger was great. Just couldn’t use Low mounts. I’ll never own another. Recently they came out with another action. Maybe I wasn’t the only one.

 

[scott_co]

Why not a Gunwerks or McWhorter...I am looking to build a custom long range rifle after this hunting season, and I was looking at either a Gunwerks or perhaps a McWhorter.

 

[Phil j]

I have a Fierce CT Edge in 28 Nosler and it shoots in the high .2 to low .3 with factory ammo I was going to load for it but it shoots factory so good I'm not going to mess with it.

 

[wind gypsy]

Why not a Gunwerks or McWhorter...I am looking to build a custom long range rifle after this hunting season, and I was looking at either a Gunwerks or perhaps a McWhorter.

Have you priced a gunwerks? They are nice but not remotely cost competitive for what you get.

McWhorter is also overpriced for what you get and they don't even do anything particularly special. Top dollar and built off a stiller action, i'll pass. Gunwerks at least has gunwerks stocks.

 

[scott_co]

McWhorter's prices are completely ridiculous. Rem700 action ($325), grayboe stock ($350), hart barrel ($350), bottom metal ($300-ish), Triggertech ($150). So $1,500 in parts and $2,750 in labor, LOLOL

View attachment 229816

For $4k, I'm getting a top tier titanium custom action, a carbon wrapped barrel, a Manners or McMillan Stock, and using a well known Smith to put it together. Paying $4k for a R700, steel barrel and cheap stock is hilarious.

Same thing for Gunwerks, you're usually over paying by about $2,000 for what you get. Not everybody is a "gun guy", and I can kinda see why they might go the Gunwerks route to have all the components picked to work together, use the Gunwerks ammo, use the Gunwerks RF, etc.

I totally hear you on the Remington 700 action. I had a .270 with Remington 700 action and it was a 1 to 1.5 MOA gun.

I currently have a Weatherby 300 Win Mag Vanguard RC and it shoots .75 MOA, but I wanted to upgrade to pretty much the main features you identified: titanium custom action, a carbon wrapped barrel, custom carbon/McMillan stock, and TriggerTech or Timney trigger.

I know the Gunwerks rifles are more expensive, and I'll see if I can locate a Smith that can pull it all together.

 

[mfllood3800]

I have 2 Fierce rifles. 300 RUM, 28 N

I drove to the old shop and picked up the Rum. It does decent and have had little issues with it. The biggest is finding a load set up it liked to stay in that sub MOA. But it may be me reacting to the kick the big magnum delivers.

How ever, I bought a 28 Nosler last year and drove to the new shop ( I live just over an hour away) to get it.
Here is my issue with it, them and the rifle.
They claimed on the supplied target it shot factory ammo ( you get the target with ammo data on every rifle as their way of validating it works).
Well mine wouldn't shoot the target data ammo as needed. It would lock the bolt. I looked for pressure signs and NONE existed. So I loaded my own with same brass and bullet, and I reduced the charge down to minimum and same thing. I also switched to another brass- same thing. I called 3 times, left 3 messages, no response. Finally left a harsh voice message on Johns voice mail and got a sales call declaring it was the Nosler brass. They claimed Nosler switched supplier and they didn't hold to density specs and the newer cases were over expanding in chamber. Well I just happen to have old and new Nosler cases. So I loaded the older ones- same issue.

Here is the problem #1. They supply me with a target and ammo data that they claimed they shot. But it wouldn't work in this rifle, or was the target and ammo data a scam? You decide.
Finally I tell them "no the nosler brass isn't the issue, old or new". At this point I am not letting up.
I get an appointment, drive there and talk directly with one of the guys in the reloading dept. I go over my load data, and he then tells me to use Bertrum brass, which we shot and it worked perfectly. he was the biggest help of any one there, their sales/service teams- are for sure lacking. He was awesome.
We loaded some, shot some and talked reloading for a long time. He sent me home with 100 cases of BB at their cost, and I loaded some up and am happy.

But problem #2- this is suppose to be a sub MOA with factory ammo- it may be, but you will only get one shot and the bolt will lock up.

Issue #3 I now have over 200 rounds thru the gun and now it is shooting the old Nosler stuff and not locking the bolt???

My summary observation
-I personally think the tolerances were too tight, in order to get the claimed sub MOA.
But that eliminated most OTC ammo from working
-Customer sales/service after the sale is not respectable
-Now the rifle is shooting what it wouldn't previously?
-Is the throat already eroded?

I will not buy another Fierce or any of the production type long range sub moa rifles out there.

Phone Skope has a guy building custom rifles and they are suppose to be shooters. I live in the same town as these guys and will try them next. They are cheaper than Fierce and are not production made sub moa rifles. I personally don't believe those 5 words should be used together.
I am well aware of John and his relationship with Christensen arms. I personally believe both companies have good and bad qualities.
If Fierce's customer service would've handled this differently I may still be a fan. But I just can't get over the idea of giving me a phony target that clearly wasn't what the rifle could shoot. That is just fake marketing.

 

[wind gypsy]

My summary observation
-I personally think the tolerances were too tight, in order to get the claimed sub MOA.
But that eliminated most OTC ammo from working

This seems unlikely they would do that intentionally. Rifles can shoot very accurately without being overly tight. Most PRS style rifles get chambers with plenty of clearance for forgiveness in tough conditions and they still stack bullets into ragged holes.

-Is the throat already eroded?

The throat is slowly eroded with every shot on basically all common centerfires. A lot more so on highly overbore cartridges like 28N. So yes, i'm sure your throat is notably different than brand new after 200 rounds. That doesn't mean it wont shoot fine. In regards to being able to shoot nosler brass now, that one is beyond my knowledge/experience. There are a lot of factors at play in how performance changes with round count. I've heard of others having their pressure signs go away after a break in period. I have had more of the opposite, pressure signs showing up as a barrel is broken in and speeds go up.

Fierce's story sure doesn't add up with your experience. If they gave you a proof target with factory ammo it should be repeatable within a reasonable margin.

 

[mfllood3800]

When I was in there for the testing with the reloading guy, there was a customer from Tx picking up his 5th rifle from them I believe. So they have satisfied customers, repeat customers and just moved into a new building, so they are doing something right.
Credit given where it's due.

My experience went from satisfied with first purchase to not with the last.
Others may have a different experience, I certainly hope.

 

[bgalloway01]

Over 2 year old thread but found it interesting. I bought a Carbon Rival Fierce 6.5PRC yesterday. Took it to the range today. Bolt won't close unless slammed shut then the brass won't come out. Had to jam a rod down the barrel to get the brass out. After forcing the bolt back open.

Called Fierce and left a VM. They were quick to get back to me. Said they found a dull device that was boring out the headspace and it must have been one that was in that run. Sending it back tomorrow. Hoping for the best. Luckily the place I bought it from said if it doesn't come back better they'll give me my money back.