Seekins havak element

[Rolltide]

You have to post the good and the bad. I went to check zero on my element in 6.5PRC two weekends ago. First shot didn’t hit paper. 2nd 4 inches left. 3rd 8 inches left. WTF. This gun has been very accurate and only fed factory 143 eldx ammo. After the 3rd shot I start checking the rifle out and notice this.
View attachment 768315

Called on Monday 9/16. Had an RMA email within 5 min with a shipping label. No hassling, no wasted time, no BS. Got the call today my new replacement rifle is on its way. I’d love for it to have never happed but Seekins customer service is as good as it comes and they’ll still have my business in the future.

Wow, I've never seen that before! Any idea what caused it?

 

[david2duck]

Wow, I've never seen that before! Any idea what caused it?

Zero idea. Only used factory ammo. Never had a sticky bolt, stuck case, pierced primer, etc. Wasn’t dropped or abused. Haven’t got a report back yet but Seekins did say they have only seen 2 of these in the last year or so. They’ve sold thousands so.

 

[waspocrew]

Wow, that’s wild! Not surprised to hear they took care of it quickly though. Sorry for the set back!

 

[bruno747]

I got mine back from seekins a couple days ago and while they sent me photos of supposed groups they shot with it being one ragged hole after they did a whole boatload of work to it. The best any of us managed with it at the range was 2.5". I sent them photos of no less than 6 groups and they called me the following business day to talk through what was happening. They immediately offered to RMA the rifle again and re-verify. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that the rifle is as capable as they showed once they re-worked it.

I'm going to put a different higher end scope on it to see if my old vortex scopes have finally given up after years of heavy recoil. Hopefully thats it or its back to seekins for them to try again.

 

[jhoff04]

I got mine back from seekins a couple days ago and while they sent me photos of supposed groups they shot with it being one ragged hole after they did a whole boatload of work to it. The best any of us managed with it at the range was 2.5". I sent them photos of no less than 6 groups and they called me the following business day to talk through what was happening. They immediately offered to RMA the rifle again and re-verify. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that the rifle is as capable as they showed once they re-worked it.

I'm going to put a different higher end scope on it to see if my old vortex scopes have finally given up after years of heavy recoil. Hopefully thats it or its back to seekins for them to try again.

My money is on your scope. Just hand to pull a new Razor HD LHT off of my dad’s PH2 300 WM (suppressed even).

 

[wind gypsy]

I got mine back from seekins a couple days ago and while they sent me photos of supposed groups they shot with it being one ragged hole after they did a whole boatload of work to it. The best any of us managed with it at the range was 2.5". I sent them photos of no less than 6 groups and they called me the following business day to talk through what was happening. They immediately offered to RMA the rifle again and re-verify. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that the rifle is as capable as they showed once they re-worked it.

I'm going to put a different higher end scope on it to see if my old vortex scopes have finally given up after years of heavy recoil. Hopefully thats it or its back to seekins for them to try again.

Have you used the same ammo as them? What scope rings are you using?

 

[bruno747]

Have you used the same ammo as them? What scope rings are you using?

Rings are their own. Seekins 30mm lows. I did have to lap them as they were grabby with any 30mm scope just dropping it into the bottoms.

I have not had an opportunity to try the exact same ammo, but we aren't talking difference between match ammo and normal ammo we are talking major difference in capability. sub 1/2 MOA claimed vs 3+ MOA consistently regardless of factory load tried. That said, I found the ammo they used locally and have it in hand for the next range test. Probably have another few days before the new scope and larger rings show up.

 

[gearguywb]

If you have a Seekins that is shooting 3 MOA you have an issue, and its not ammo (unless you are shooting 270 in a 30-06 )

Attack it one piece at a time. I would pull the scope, replace it with any other, and then try again.

Looks at all of the scope/rings/mount points. Triple check everything.

 

[bruno747]

If you have a Seekins that is shooting 3 MOA you have an issue, and its not ammo (unless you are shooting 270 in a 30-06 )

Attack it one piece at a time. I would pull the scope, replace it with any other, and then try again.

Looks at all of the scope/rings/mount points. Triple check everything.

Agreed, at least its better than how it originally shot. 5" at 50 yards was the worst it did before sending it in. Before I sent it in the first time, it got another of the same model scope installed that was shooting well on the rifle it was on. (It did coincidentally come off a 270). Both scopes are 9-10 years old with lord only knows how many rounds of recoil on them.

I have no doubt there was an original issue though because the voicemail of all the work they had to do to get it shooting well again at their own shop just kept on going and going.

I'll be sure to update this thread once the new scope shows up and I can get it back out to the range.

 

[Metzger]

I got mine back after a holt head, insert and barrel change. Here is a 300 yard group with factory 147ELD-M.

 

[khuber84]

I got mine back after a holt head, insert and barrel change. Here is a 300 yard group with factory 147ELD-M.

Curios, why was all that hardware changed? Sounds like some major components were not machined properly on bore axis.

 

[Metzger]

Curios, why was all that hardware changed? Sounds like some major components were not machined properly on bore axis.

Attached is a target before sending it in. It was shooting 1.5-2" @100yards. It still shoots .6" 3 shot at 100 yards and groups quite well at distance.

 

[rileybassman]

Here's a 10-shot group with my element from last week. 7 through 1 hole and 3 outside. I'm betting some of that was me. Either way, ready to go for this season.

 

[bruno747]

Got a chance to get mine back out to the range.

Seekins recommended hornady 168 ELD match ammo. This is what shot a ragged 3 shot group according to them. I grabbed a few boxes.

For scope replacement I ponied up to call seekins bluff (not that I had any real reason to doubt them) and purchased a new 4-16x42 F1 Nightforce ATACR and nightforce's 6 screw lightweight ultra rings.

Cleaned the rifle last night before the range trip inspected everything and made sure there were no loose or under torqued screws.

Took my time bore sighting the rifle and sent fouling\boresight shot. Landed half inch right and a hair high at 100yd. Adjusted the scope and proceeded to do the first group.

Good news is the rifle shot by far the best groups it ever has, First three grouping shots were just under 3/4". Sending another 2 opened it up to just barely under an inch. Let things cool down and this is where it became disappointing.

As I sent more shots the groups began to open up...rapidly. By the end of 20 rounds it was making 1.5" 3 shot groups again with 5 or more opening back up to 2". For comparison I can put 250ish rounds down my howa 6.5 grendel before it begins to lose accuracy or about 400 through my seekins NX15.

I put it away to cool and shot the other rifles I brought. Then took them to the 200 and 300 yard steel range.

And thats when the seekins just completely fell apart. At 200 yards we had about a 1 in 5 hit rate on a 11" hexagon. Completely unacceptable. We had a pretty decent hit rate on a 1/3 size deer but even managed to have some fliers that just completely missed the deer with no discernable reason.

Meanwhile the Benelli R1 in 300 win mag with an old nikon scope and the subsonic 300 blackout kimber bolt gun with a maven rs2 both ran the know your limits rack at 300 yards from 13" Hexagons down to 2" hexagons with only a few misses between the two trying to get the 2" hexagon. We didnt even try the element at 300 if it shoots that wildly at 200 with seekins reccomended match ammo and a nightforce scope.

Guess I'll be sending the results back to the person at Seekins I have been conversing with and see what they say.

TLDR; Followed Seekins recommendations regarding expensive scope and ammo. The rifle started rapidly losing accuracy as the barrel fouled. Completely fell on its face at 200 yards at aroud 30 rounds down the tube.

 

[rileybassman]

Got a chance to get mine back out to the range.

Seekins recommended hornady 168 ELD match ammo. This is what shot a ragged 3 shot group according to them. I grabbed a few boxes.

For scope replacement I ponied up to call seekins bluff (not that I had any real reason to doubt them) and purchased a new 4-16x42 F1 Nightforce ATACR and nightforce's 6 screw lightweight ultra rings.

Cleaned the rifle last night before the range trip inspected everything and made sure there were no loose or under torqued screws.

Took my time bore sighting the rifle and sent fouling\boresight shot. Landed half inch right and a hair high at 100yd. Adjusted the scope and proceeded to do the first group.

Good news is the rifle shot by far the best groups it ever has, First three grouping shots were just under 3/4". Sending another 2 opened it up to just barely under an inch. Let things cool down and this is where it became disappointing.

As I sent more shots the groups began to open up...rapidly. By the end of 20 rounds it was making 1.5" 3 shot groups again with 5 or more opening back up to 2". For comparison I can put 250ish rounds down my howa 6.5 grendel before it begins to lose accuracy or about 400 through my seekins NX15.

I put it away to cool and shot the other rifles I brought. Then took them to the 200 and 300 yard steel range.

And thats when the seekins just completely fell apart. At 200 yards we had about a 1 in 5 hit rate on a 11" hexagon. Completely unacceptable. We had a pretty decent hit rate on a 1/3 size deer but even managed to have some fliers that just completely missed the deer with no discernable reason.

Meanwhile the Benelli R1 in 300 win mag with an old nikon scope and the subsonic 300 blackout kimber bolt gun with a maven rs2 both ran the know your limits rack at 300 yards from 13" Hexagons down to 2" hexagons with only a few misses between the two trying to get the 2" hexagon. We didnt even try the element at 300 if it shoots that wildly at 200 with seekins reccomended match ammo and a nightforce scope.

Guess I'll be sending the results back to the person at Seekins I have been conversing with and see what they say.

TLDR; Followed Seekins recommendations regarding expensive scope and ammo. The rifle started rapidly losing accuracy as the barrel fouled. Completely fell on its face at 200 yards at aroud 30 rounds down the tube.

That's a shame and really interesting - to hear that kind of fall off makes me think something is loose maybe? I assume you properly de-greased everything and confirmed everything (rings, rail, screws, stock, etc.) is tight?

IME with 1 element and 1 PH2, they don't seem to wander much when heated up and for sure not like you are experiencing.

Are you using a lead sled or something weird with your shooting set up? I've not heard of a barrel being accurate and then just dying to that degree without something serious wrong... aka I don't think fouling is your problem - I barely ever clean anymore (usually just at the end of the season if exposed to snow etc.) and accuracy has always been great.

 

[bruno747]

That's a shame and really interesting - to hear that kind of fall off makes me think something is loose maybe? I assume you properly de-greased everything and confirmed everything (rings, rail, screws, stock, etc.) is tight?

IME with 1 element and 1 PH2, they don't seem to wander much when heated up and for sure not like you are experiencing.

Are you using a lead sled or something weird with your shooting set up? I've not heard of a barrel being accurate and then just dying to that degree without something serious wrong... aka I don't think fouling is your problem - I barely ever clean anymore (usually just at the end of the season if exposed to snow etc.) and accuracy has always been great.

Everything checked over tight at the end of the day, nothing loose, nothing obvious. Nightforce was mounted pretty close to the bell and there is no signs of slipping. Unless the nightforce failed from 30 rounds of 308, which would be mind blowing. Suppressor has no signs of any kind of rubbing let alone any cap or baffle strike. Maybe its just a cursed setup and hates me despite throwing literal thousands at it.

I don't know that its fouling causing the issue, That's just the first thing my mind went to since it was all the same bullet and getting worse as more rounds were fired regardless of hot or cold barrel.

As for shooting setup, no lead sled or similar here, just some old caldwell bags to rest on and a good heavy stable bench and seat. One for front one for back and my shoulder providing the recoil absorption.

 

[waspocrew]

Got a chance to get mine back out to the range.

Seekins recommended hornady 168 ELD match ammo. This is what shot a ragged 3 shot group according to them. I grabbed a few boxes.

For scope replacement I ponied up to call seekins bluff (not that I had any real reason to doubt them) and purchased a new 4-16x42 F1 Nightforce ATACR and nightforce's 6 screw lightweight ultra rings.

Cleaned the rifle last night before the range trip inspected everything and made sure there were no loose or under torqued screws.

Took my time bore sighting the rifle and sent fouling\boresight shot. Landed half inch right and a hair high at 100yd. Adjusted the scope and proceeded to do the first group.

Good news is the rifle shot by far the best groups it ever has, First three grouping shots were just under 3/4". Sending another 2 opened it up to just barely under an inch. Let things cool down and this is where it became disappointing.

As I sent more shots the groups began to open up...rapidly. By the end of 20 rounds it was making 1.5" 3 shot groups again with 5 or more opening back up to 2". For comparison I can put 250ish rounds down my howa 6.5 grendel before it begins to lose accuracy or about 400 through my seekins NX15.

I put it away to cool and shot the other rifles I brought. Then took them to the 200 and 300 yard steel range.

And thats when the seekins just completely fell apart. At 200 yards we had about a 1 in 5 hit rate on a 11" hexagon. Completely unacceptable. We had a pretty decent hit rate on a 1/3 size deer but even managed to have some fliers that just completely missed the deer with no discernable reason.

Meanwhile the Benelli R1 in 300 win mag with an old nikon scope and the subsonic 300 blackout kimber bolt gun with a maven rs2 both ran the know your limits rack at 300 yards from 13" Hexagons down to 2" hexagons with only a few misses between the two trying to get the 2" hexagon. We didnt even try the element at 300 if it shoots that wildly at 200 with seekins reccomended match ammo and a nightforce scope.

Guess I'll be sending the results back to the person at Seekins I have been conversing with and see what they say.

TLDR; Followed Seekins recommendations regarding expensive scope and ammo. The rifle started rapidly losing accuracy as the barrel fouled. Completely fell on its face at 200 yards at aroud 30 rounds down the tube.

That’s pretty wild - sorry to hear it’s been a less than awesome experience. I’d think Seekins would just swap you out a new rifle at this point?

Curious to hear what they say.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

How long has it been taking Seekins to get back to you guys about warranty issues? I’m assuming you just go through the “contact us” link on their website?

 

[david2duck]

I called in and talked to them. 3-5 min later they sent me an email with a return label.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I called in and talked to them. 3-5 min later they sent me an email with a return label.

Thanks, I’ll call them if they don’t get ahold of me on Monday.

I absolutely hate these guns. I have no time for crap that breaks. I’m an official Seekins precision hater.