Seek Outside vs Kifaru shelters

[Felix40]

I saw a test SO did where it took 300 lbs of force to rip out a stake loop. I dont know about most people but thats good enough for me. Until we see a side by side test done I dont think anyone can say that one is more durable than the other.

 

[dotman]

I saw a test SO did where it took 300 lbs of force to rip out a stake loop. I dont know about most people but thats good enough for me. Until we see a side by side test done I dont think anyone can say that one is more durable than the other.

Many of us have, I don't think your going to see a difference until your product has to sustain hurricane force winds for an extended period.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Okay, with a little more research I found out that both are made of 30D nylon fabric (not silnylon), with silicone coating and 100% USA made. SO seams are triple stitched, not sure about Kifaru. Also, one more feature that I forgot to mention regarding SO is, for their tipi's, they have additional tie out loops that are placed a couple feet above the base and around the perimeter of the shelter to be used for additional guy lines for heavy winds or the tipi's can be brought down and staked out at that level, decreasing the height and footprint, as conditions dictate.

This is off of Kifaru's website:

FABRIC: I want to be clear on one thing - what our material is NOT. It is not what everybody else is using. It is not silnylon, and it certainly isn't in the same category. Silnylon--either sourced from offshore or domestically--has less than half the tear strength of our proprietary fabric. Yet our fabric is just as light. The only thing silnylon has going for it is that it's far cheaper than our stuff. This fact means our shelters cost more.

I took this off of another forum where Kevin (SO part owner), was comparing the material that Kifaru uses and the material Seek uses.

Both are american made 30D nylon with silicone coatings. Our choice came down to being able to consistantly meet a certain waterproof rating where the other fabric provided could not do that.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it is my understanding that silnylon is silicone coated nylon. They companies are simply trying to distance themselves from cheaper materials of the same name like stuff from ripstopbytheroll because they are superior and more expensive. I've messed with a lot of different fabrics and they are not created equal.


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[AK Troutbum]

This is off of Kifaru's website:

FABRIC: I want to be clear on one thing - what our material is NOT. It is not what everybody else is using. It is not silnylon, and it certainly isn't in the same category. Silnylon--either sourced from offshore or domestically--has less than half the tear strength of our proprietary fabric. Yet our fabric is just as light. The only thing silnylon has going for it is that it's far cheaper than our stuff. This fact means our shelters cost more.
QUOTE]

I do find it kind of interesting that the only thing Kifaru says about their fabric is "what our material is NOT". They tell you what it isn't but don't say what it is.

 

[4ester]

Here is a video Aron did awhile back regarding tent materials.

30D Debate - YouTube


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[Zoo Keeper]

I have no experience with Kifaru, but my first trip out with my Cimmaron last Oct saw A LOT of wet heavy snow.

I was nervous but it exceeded my expectations. The pole got a little bendy, but tent itself shrugged it off.


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[Richard295]

I've had a few Kifaru shelters and feel the Seek Outside is of similar quality. I currently have a Cimmaron and it is my favorite shelter I've had so far. Last year we had a Sawtooth and Cimmaron side by side and the Sawtooth material stretched way more then the Cimmaron. While I think Kifaru makes a great product and I have had most of their stuff I think Seek Outside also makes a great product and have zero concerns with the product.

As a general rule, Nylon 6,6 (strongest) will stretch about 2% versus Nylon which stretches about 3.5%. Do these vendors specify what type of nylon their shelters are made from?

 

[AK Troutbum]

Here is a video Aron did awhile back regarding tent materials.

30D Debate - YouTube


Follow me on Instagram @ high_mountain_hunter

Nicely done video, thank you for posting this. Patrick may want to change his wording on the Kifaru website where he states that their fabric is not silnylon as that is contrary to what Aron states in the video.

 

[Josh Boyd]

Any of you guys have experience running or testing both brands of shelters? I wanna do a lifetime bha membership at some point and was wondering about the cimmaron? I have a kifaru 6 man and stove right now and wanna see how it stacks up as far as quality goes. Seems like both companies have a great reputation around rokslide

I am about to do some side-by-side comparisons, evaluations, and a write-up of a few of the "mid style" shelters on available. Right now I have a Seek Outside Cimarron, a Mountain Laurel Design SuperMid, a Kifaru Tut, and a Blackdiamond Megalight in the line up. I'm shooting for a mid June publish date, but maybe I'll get a thread going once the testing gets underway. You are probably wanting to order a shelter sooner than later, but if you can wait a little I'll definitely give you my 2 cents.

-Josh

 

[Jskaanland]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it is my understanding that silnylon is silicone coated nylon. They companies are simply trying to distance themselves from cheaper materials of the same name like stuff from ripstopbytheroll because they are superior and more expensive. I've messed with a lot of different fabrics and they are not created equal.


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What are you currently building your shelters out of?

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

What are you currently building your shelters out of?

I will use whatever the customer wants but most commonly a 30d American made silnylon.

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[LBFowler]

Kifaru certainly has confused the issue with their old claims of not being silnylon.

I think even up till recently Kifaru customer service will say that it isn't silnylon because it is nylon "impregnated" with silicone rather then nylon coated with silicone. I don't know enough to say if this is a pertinent distinction, but I have my doubts.


SO uses 30d nylon 6.6. Kifaru uses 30d "high tenacity nylon," which I'm pretty sure means nylon 6.6.

SO claims a HH of 3000mm. I'm not sure if Kifaru has ever made claims about their HH? That would be a very pertinent bit of info toward the discussion.

Also keep in mind that SO has changed fabric several times since they started, different weights/colors and likely sources. Experiences with their newer tents will be the most applicable.

 

[6.5x284]

Tag.

 

[Hall256]

Nope but kifaru fabric is superior without question. Of the ones I have handled, kifaru pitches tighter and handles the wind quite a bit better. So no I haven't done exhaustive tests on every model but of the ones I have handled personally kifaru wins.

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Having used Kifaru and mention ing their taunt when pitched, and also making your own shelters...i was wondering if you know why some users report "sag" with their tents?

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[LBFowler]

Having used Kifaru and mention ing their taunt when pitched, and also making your own shelters...i was wondering if you know why some users report "sag" with their tents?

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Two main things at work...floorless tents aren't the easiest to pitch correctly, and second nylon relaxes when it gets wet. So not matter how well you pitch it they can get a little saggy first thing in the morning just from dew.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Having used Kifaru and mention ing their taunt when pitched, and also making your own shelters...i was wondering if you know why some users report "sag" with their tents?

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Yes I can speak to that but tipsntails might bust my balls if I haven't tested every shelter on the planet in exactly the same conditions and I dont have a chemistry degree and I don't own 3 manufacturing plants .

Seriously though there are a few things at work here. First and most importantly, all silnylon sags she wet a little because while the fabrics supposedly don't let any water through (this is not always true), the way silnylon is manufactured does allow the nylon to absorb water and nylon 6,6 with expand and lengthen 2% while lesser nylons will up to 3.5%. To put that in perspective an 8 foot span will grow nearly 2 inches on nylon 6,6. Polyester doesn't really have that problem but there are tradeoffs. Second the way fabric is put together matters in that the ripstop grid and grain of the fabric does provide some structure and the fabric has quite a bit less stretch in the directions on the grid than it does on the bias stretch. What this translates to is seam placement and fabric directionality matters. Seek outside does a better job managing this using alternating directionality at the seams. Third, as already mention pitching is not always done as tight as possible or in the most ideal conditions.

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[LandYacht]

Only one way to settle it....throw them off a cliff.


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[Karlkortemeier]

I've had shelters from both companies. I've had a Kifaru paratipi, and currently own a megatarp. I'm on my second 6 man tipi from Seek Outside. The only reason I bought a second 6 man, is that I went to Alaska for two weeks with incorrect stakes for the tundra. I ended up having to use rocks to hold my tent down. We had 20 to 30 mile an hour winds the whole time, sometimes higher. The rocks rubbed holes through the material. This was my fault and not an issue with the tent. I mainly camp in heavily wooded areas, and have never experienced such unrelenting high winds. It was a learning experience. SO said they could repair the holes, but I wanted the newer version with the higher stake outs. I'm very pleased with the upgrades they have made to their tipi's. That said, I'm also very happy with my megatarp. Its very bomb proof. You can't go wrong with either company.

 

[DaveC]

I am about to do some side-by-side comparisons, evaluations, and a write-up of a few of the "mid style" shelters on available. Right now I have a Seek Outside Cimarron, a Mountain Laurel Design SuperMid, a Kifaru Tut, and a Blackdiamond Megalight in the line up. I'm shooting for a mid June publish date, but maybe I'll get a thread going once the testing gets underway. You are probably wanting to order a shelter sooner than later, but if you can wait a little I'll definitely give you my 2 cents.

-Josh

Will be fun to see what you find Josh. I've been impressed with every MLD shelter I've had, but the lack of certain features (like a sod skirt) has always had me selling them in the end.

I'd be surprised if there is any practical difference between the high-end silnylons used by Seek Outside, Kifaru, and MLD. I assume things like features and construction methods will end up being far more important.

 

[Beendare]

I would be interested to see facts on these fabrics too. Some of the unsubstantiated claims don't sit well with me but it seems to me that everything plays a part in these structures including design.

Does a 3,000 waterproofing outperform 1,500 by 2x in the real world? [i don't know...it might outperform by 4x...or not at all]

I do know that some of the Silnylon I have of the same weight from different sources is different. Some has almost no stretch from side to side/end to end but a fair amount of stretch at a 45 deg angle.

Some Silnylon has a very fine dyneema fiber built in as a ripstop. I am very impressed with the 1.6oz 4000PU stuff from Ripstop by the roll...little to no stretch, very tough.