Seek Outside Analysis Paralysis...Advice/Opinions please

[Runningwater]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger on my first SO pack. Among other things that are attracting me to their packs are weight savings and better water resistance than what I'm currently using. Want one of their large volume offerings. Initially I was drawn to the Unaweep 6300 and the Revolution Fortress 6300. One reason I liked these was the waterproof/resistance due to the lack of a zipper, these are both just roll top main bags in Xpac. I also thought the talon seemed pretty functional. Unfortunately I've now been looking at their pack long enough that I'm now questioning whether I should be looking hard at the Brooks and Broadwing as well. So I've got some questions for any owners of these or similar packs (I've also been talking to SO on the phone and they've been very helpful as well).

Revo frame vs. non-revo frame. For those of you with the Revolution frame - how often are you utilizing this option? Are you ever packing in the breakaway space with the bag full? When you leave base camp are you leaving the main bag in camp and running the Revo as just a hauler or hauler with a pocket or lid? If you are hunting with the main bag attached when you haul meat back to camp are you actually utilizing the breakaway function or just putting the meat in the main bag or strapping it on with a talon? Trying to decide if the Revolution is worth the moderate increase in weight/cost vs. non-Rev. If going with the revolution, does it make more sense to go with Brooks (more side pocket, no talon) vs. the Fortress (less side pocket, with a talon)? Where I'm getting at with this question is if I'm using the breakaway option on the Revo, it seems like you'll be getting to where having weight too far off your back could become an issue - i.e. you might not be wanting to stuff too much gear in/behind the talon that is far off the back?

Full length zipper vs. just bag with roll top. A full length zipper certainly is nice when loading/unloading the pack. I seldom need to do this on the trail, and am used to a simple main bag (I had a Kifaru High Camp for quite some time and I don't think I ever utilized the bottom zipper). But it seems a bit that a full length zipper might to some extent negate the advantage of the Xpac material. For those with the SO packs with big zippers - how much seepage are you getting with wet situations?

This will see action in CO where usually you won't be exposed to extended wet periods, but will also often be in AK in a Zodiac and various locations on the Kenai.

All advice/opinions are greatly appreciated. Also, does anyone in the north Denver/Boulder area have an SO pack that I could come take a look at? I've never seen one except on the web and it would be nice to see and handle one in person. Thanks - Dan!

 

[FURMAN]

I personally would never go with the unaweep. I like the option and use the option to change bags. I have the Broadwing, the Peregrine, and the Fortress 4800. I love the Revo frame/suspension. I love the Xpac. The Peregrine 3500 is a great 1-3 maybe 4 day bag. The Broadwing 7000 is close to perfect for me but really needs more compartmentalization built in. I find the lid and talon attachment to me more cumbersome than useful. They both look great in pics but are clumsy in practice. My 4800 is for sale. I ordered a Exo 5500 and a SG sky guide7900 to do some comparison because their bags look more useful to me but it will be hard to go backwards for me after using xpac. It kept my gear dry in NZ without have to hassle with stopping to put on a rain cover. I have packed some meat with mine but with the heaviest load of meat I did not have all my gear. I think the pack was super comfortable with around 100lbs.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I don’t know a thing about most questions you ask. Only to say that packing meat in the shelf with camp in the bag shouldn’t cause a lot of problems with the weight being to far back. It’s camp man. It SHOULD be the lightest of your load. What’s a nice back country camp weigh? 10 pounds counting extra clothes and gear? How thick is a 70 lb ham or bag of boneless meat? Not real thick. It ain’t idea but, Nothing about hauling camp and meat is ideal. You are gonna drop the camp first trip out anyways.





I know Aron talks about it but, Aron is carrying a lot of heavy gear you won’t be. Don’t over think this or use recited internet lore as a guideline with this variable. Use your nugget and determine if this is truly going to be an issue with your hunting. God Bless

 

[Runningwater]

For the depth issue I wasn't concerned about moving meat from the kill sight to camp, I was contemplating the eventual breaking camp and bringing camp and kills back to the trailhead in a single trip (or as few as possible). Our backcountry camps typically are more of a base camp - more that 10lbs. But I get your point.

 

[wind gypsy]

I personally would never go with the unaweep. I like the option and use the option to change bags. I have the Broadwing, the Peregrine, and the Fortress 4800. I love the Revo frame/suspension. I love the Xpac. The Peregrine 3500 is a great 1-3 maybe 4 day bag. The Broadwing 7000 is close to perfect for me but really needs more compartmentalization built in. I find the lid and talon attachment to me more cumbersome than useful. They both look great in pics but are clumsy in practice. My 4800 is for sale. I ordered a Exo 5500 and a SG sky guide7900 to do some comparison because their bags look more useful to me but it will be hard to go backwards for me after using xpac. It kept my gear dry in NZ without have to hassle with stopping to put on a rain cover. I have packed some meat with mine but with the heaviest load of meat I did not have all my gear. I think the pack was super comfortable with around 100lbs.

I have a peregrine and broadwing as well and concur with all of this.

I hunted with a peregrine one day last year in steady rain and the contents of the bag got wet. I have not seam sealed either of the bags and will be doing so to improve the weatherproofness of them. I assume I would still want to use a pack liner or cover if worried about moisture inside the bag during extended rain if using a bag with a zipper.

Besides bag swapping flexibility, packing meat on a load shelf is a primary reason to go Revo frame. I added a load sling to my revo frame like used by Exo to pack meat. The argument of putting your bag farther from the frame doesn't hold weight in a comparison to packing meat in your bag. People want to compare the characteristics of a 7000 CI bag with 2000 CI of space on a load shelf to a 7000 CI bag with meat in it when it should be compared to a full 9000 CI bag if you're apples to apples.

 

[Runningwater]

thanks. I think with the Fortress (note without any actual experience) I'd like to think I could run without a liner, and perhaps just have my WM bag and clothing in a light dry bag if I know I'll be in wet country. I suppose the same would hold true for the Broadwing or may just want a full liner (garbage bag) with it due to the zipper. I think I'm narrowing in on Broadwing and Fortress 6300. Anyone else have experience with the talon on the fortress? Is it a useful pocket and compression feature or more straps/buckles than its worth? Seems like the talon, the zip/no zip, and about a 1/2 pound are the difference between the two. Does anyone know if the main bag dimensions are pretty much the same on these two bags?

 

[RockChucker30]

Meat carry on Revolution - since we updated the panel and added the moveable load shelf I'd do it one of two ways. First, with a light load of day gear I'd shove everything down into the bottom of the pack, then detach the top packbag connection and roll / fold the fabric down into a ball. Place meat on top of the rolled down packbag and compress with straps or a Talon. Talon works really good as a compression panel.

Second method would likely be with a more loaded packbag, or if not enough gear in the packbag to bump the meat up (want 70-80% of the total weight between mid back and ear height if possible) then I'd breakaway and use the moveable load shelf to hold the meat up where I want.

With Unaweep it'd either be inside which I wouldn't prefer unless it's a one trip packout (dirty gear) or shove to bottom of pack, load meat above it on outside of packbag, compress with talon.

Waterproofing - XPac doesn't leak, seams and stitch holes do. The Fortress is our easiest packbag to fully waterproof because it has the fewest needle holes.

In my testing a pack that is upright and full with compression straps tight over the zipper rainflap will not get water in through the zipper. Lay that pack down in a zodiac and water will get through the zipper. So if you're in a raft dry bags for down are almost required, and a liner isn't a bad idea. Bad stuff happens and it's best to be prepared on a trip like that.

You have to do seam sealing well and right to be effective. We've got instructions on the site.

 

[Runningwater]

Thanks - will be a tough choice between the Fortress and the Broadwing, but I'm sure I'd be happy with either so maybe no wrong choice. How much difference in size is there in the main bag between the two?

 

[GraveyardNRSE]

Have you thought about Kifaru? I’m sure I’ll catch hell from some but it’s an excellent meat hauler and great company. SO is gathering quite the following so maybe that’s a good thing.


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[Runningwater]

Yes, I currently have a Kifaru (hopefully I don't catch any hell either!) and its been great. Hell for stout! I'm intrigued by the increased weather protection in the SO's, and it appears I would conservatively shave a about a pound in weight for a comparable sized pack. We are a very lucky bunch to have multiple companies producing so many great products and options for all of us!

 

[GraveyardNRSE]

Weight is a non issue for me. Some may like the lower weight of SO but Kifaru’s are tanks. I’ve never tried a SO pack so I have no clue the comfort of them either. Let’s just be thankful that kuiu is not part of your plan.


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[JD619er]

Goodness gracious

 

[Runningwater]

I turned 50 this year. We go pretty far back in remote and high areas. I'm not a 60 days in the backcountry a year person (yet!) - me and friends usually get one big week or so backcountry trip a year (plenty of local deer/elk/bird in addition). I'm becoming more aware of weight. It's much more important to be in shape and not be carrying a useless extra 10 pounds around the waist - but cutting a pound here and a 1/2 pound there adds up pretty quick. We also like to have some luxuries like real food every other night, a decent bottle of rye, and a tipi with a bit of space. Just time to spend with old close friends. Anyhow, a pound means more than it used to - but dry gear and a not wetted out pack is probably higher on the list. I started out packing in with a 60's era hand me down kelty pack, wrangler jean's, a cabelas summit sleeping bag, and 20 Hi-tech nylon tennie hikers. Most of my stuff was tied either to the top or bottom of my pack. We loved all those trips (successful or not), had a great time, and never gave a second thought to the gear we had. Its remarkable how much good gear that's available now! I'm thankful for all the backcountry hunting options we have now. FWIW I have a pair of Kuiu Chugach pant that will be traveling across Tuskumena lake for a pack in along with a new SO pack this fall.

 

[sndmn11]

The new load shelf allows basically independent compression of the load and the bag. So you are able to have the load high and distribute the weight in the bag around/below the load. I have a peregrine and a saker you are welcome to try out.

 

[Lockster]

I am in a very similar position as the OP, I’m mid 40’s, starting to feel knee issues playing up and I’m really trying to look at minimising my load as much as possible.

I also have not found an ideal pack set up despite trying Exo, MR, Kifaru, so I’m planning to try a SO pack very soon.

I’m torn with the same questions re their range.

Do I prefer waterproof or a side zip? Well I think if I need truly waterproof then I can pack stuff in dry sacks so I’m thinking go with the zip option.

Do I NEED the breakaway function? I think I will go that route as I will only regret it if I don’t.

Do I get a Goshawk to give enough size for longer trips, and have to contend with the extra fabric on every day trip that I do? I’d love to see one rolled right down and compressed real tight to a Peregrine size to compare, the full length zip lends the option of rolling it right down and still having relatively good access.

If the Goshawk has the side sleeves like the Peregrine then I’d just buy one, as it gives the ability to carry water bladder, a rifle, optics etc in the sleeve (and I think that the popularity of the Kifaru Reckoning bag is testament to consumers preference for a “large bag with zip and side sleeves” (and the so I do hope that they do make such a critter soon. Unfortunately the Peregrine is just a bit too small to be a do all pack for me.

The Brooks/Saker look awesome but the Saker is a good bit more $ than the other options I’m considering and I really prefer to have a sleeve pocket that has the option to be left open at the top for a rifle etc.

It’s always hard to decide...

 

[hammer0419]

Revolution frame with pack or packs of your choice. Most comfortable pack system made today!!! Simply awesome

 

[Rokwiia]

I've got the Revolution Fortress 6,300 and I struggled with my decision for a while. I only use it for backpacking and, hands down, the Revo platform is the way to go. I got the Fortress 6,300 because I wanted as much capacity as possible while keeping my contents waterproof. I think water infiltration from a zipper such as the Goshawk is probably is unlikely but I didn't want to chance it.

The roll-down top is easy and convenient. I also got a top lid and two hipbelt pockets. Between the three of them and the talon, I've got plenty of separate storage areas to put items I want to readily access.

The Fortress bag also gives me access to bottom pouches to carry water in a quart-size Gatorade bottle. It is the easiest access to a water bottle of any backpack I've owned and I've owned a few.

In the end, you could also buy separately a Goshawk bag if you wanted. I think you'd find the Revo Fortress 6,300 to be a spectacular setup.

 

[texag10]

Lockster, I have a Fortress 4800. With the talon cinched down all the way, the packbag compresses to nothing. It will be the same width as the outside of the frame and the talon/merlin will be the thing that sticks out furthest.

 

[RockChucker30]

Regarding the weight issue, I believe reducing weight becomes more of a priority as you go deeper, you have more gain, and you get older. Where I like to hunt basically all access trails start with 3000 feet of gain. Weight matters.

Looking at weight reduction logically, you can cut the largest percentage from your base weight - sleeping insulation and pad, shelter, and backpack.

Of these three I believe cutting pack weight is MOST important. Why? When you drop camp and go hunting your pack is still on you.

Your pack is nearly always on you, so weight reduction there is multiplied by the time carried.

In fact I think weight X time carried is probably the best metric to determine where to cut weight.

A comfy camp and light pack plus day load make sense if your going into one spot and staying. If you move every day then everything needs to be looked at from a weight perspective.


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[104TN]

Meat carry on Revolution - since we updated the panel and added the moveable load shelf I'd do it one of two ways. First, with a light load of day gear I'd shove everything down into the bottom of the pack, then detach the top packbag connection and roll / fold the fabric down into a ball. Place meat on top of the rolled down packbag and compress with straps or a Talon. Talon works really good as a compression panel.

Second method would likely be with a more loaded packbag, or if not enough gear in the packbag to bump the meat up (want 70-80% of the total weight between mid back and ear height if possible) then I'd breakaway and use the moveable load shelf to hold the meat up where I want.

With Unaweep it'd either be inside which I wouldn't prefer unless it's a one trip packout (dirty gear) or shove to bottom of pack, load meat above it on outside of packbag, compress with talon.

Waterproofing - XPac doesn't leak, seams and stitch holes do. The Fortress is our easiest packbag to fully waterproof because it has the fewest needle holes.

In my testing a pack that is upright and full with compression straps tight over the zipper rainflap will not get water in through the zipper. Lay that pack down in a zodiac and water will get through the zipper. So if you're in a raft dry bags for down are almost required, and a liner isn't a bad idea. Bad stuff happens and it's best to be prepared on a trip like that.

You have to do seam sealing well and right to be effective. We've got instructions on the site.

Any roadmap for the zipper on the Goshawk to be upgraded to a waterproof one?