Scope Zero Check Thread

[flyfisher117]

You're probably right about the Leopold. But I've had good luck with these rings before on two other rifles, I don't think these are the ultralights? https://www.talleymanufacturing.com/product/cz-550-screw-lock-detachable-for-dovetail-setup/

Don’t worry I can shoot the same kind of groups with my Tikkas wearing UM rings and both a Maven or SWFA scope.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Scope bases to action, and/or scope ring caps to scope bases loosening are one of the leading causes for groups to look like that.

The VX is obviously suspect. They work until they don’t. I used VXs for years and wanted them to work so badly I put up with all the BS that’s met with using them. No more.

 

[1000yards]

Scope bases to action, and/or scope ring caps to scope bases loosening are one of the leading causes for groups to look like that.

The VX is obviously suspect. They work until they don’t. I used VXs for years and wanted them to work so badly I put up with all the BS that’s met with using them. No more.

I appreciate the reply. I wasn't suspecting the rings because my last two groups were tighter than my first. From what I've seen with loose rings or bases the groups will just open up and stay that way. I checked all the action screws and ring screws, and everything's tight. No bases on this gun since the CZ 550 has a dovetail with a recoil stop machined into the receiver. Probably the scope then. Now the question is do I keep burning ammo, or cut my losses? I think I know the answer.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

The picture on site you linked shows a design where the scope tube and rail are clamped simultaneously.

 

[1000yards]

The picture on site you linked shows a design where the scope tube and rail are clamped simultaneously.

No sir. The ring on the left shows the left side of the ring which has two small screws to hold together the bottom part of the ring halves. The screw on the right shows the right side of the ring which has one large screw that clamps down to the receiver. I am able to take my scope off the rifle and leave the rings attached (around the scope) by unscrewing the large single screw at the bottom right side of each ring.

 

[2-Stix]

I ran into a few issues on my zero looking for input. I shoot all factory ammo, Barnes bullets as I am in CA. All standard Tikka stocks, not bedded, but I have free floated the barrel and shot off a Spartan bi-pod and rear bag at 100 yards.

Now I have been through the ringer in the past 6 years...3 junk savages, 3 leupolds (all failed) and 3 years ago drank the koolaide and now have 3 tikkas, with UM rings and NF NXS scopes. I have done the full degrease and properly torqued everything; real bottom metal, torqued action, ring bases and top caps all with locktight. The 7rm is a 1.25" 20 shot group. The 6.5 is about 1.65" group and the 308 has never shot great at 2-2.25". The 308 went threw 3 rounds of ceretoke (orange peel, wrong color then the right color, what a mess and may have affected the rifle...unsure).

So here are my last 3 groups with the 308 over the last 18 months. What did cahnge from the 2nd and 3rd round is I read about if your bolt handle touches the stock it can be an isue so I grooved out the stock. Also I could have adjusted my zero wrong last time. You can see my notes on my adjustments. I plan to go back in the winter after season (308 is a back up gun) and shot 10 rounds and see where I am at.

Anyway...and thoughts?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I ran into a few issues on my zero looking for input. I shoot all factory ammo, Barnes bullets as I am in CA. All standard Tikka stocks, not bedded, but I have free floated the barrel and shot off a Spartan bi-pod and rear bag at 100 yards.

Now I have been through the ringer in the past 6 years...3 junk savages, 3 leupolds (all failed) and 3 years ago drank the koolaide and now have 3 tikkas, with UM rings and NF NXS scopes. I have done the full degrease and properly torqued everything; real bottom metal, torqued action, ring bases and top caps all with locktight. The 7rm is a 1.25" 20 shot group. The 6.5 is about 1.65" group and the 308 has never shot great at 2-2.25". The 308 went threw 3 rounds of ceretoke (orange peel, wrong color then the right color, what a mess and may have affected the rifle...unsure).

So here are my last 3 groups with the 308 over the last 18 months. What did cahnge from the 2nd and 3rd round is I read about if your bolt handle touches the stock it can be an isue so I grooved out the stock. Also I could have adjusted my zero wrong last time. You can see my notes on my adjustments. I plan to go back in the winter after season (308 is a back up gun) and shot 10 rounds and see where I am at.

Anyway...and thoughts?

My first thought is... Where is your aim point? If it's bullseye then why are you not adjusting your 100 yard zero properly? It's impossible to tell if your zero has shifted if you don't know what the true zero is to start with.

My second thought is... 10 shots at 100 yards into a 2 MOA circle isn't unrealistic, particularly with that ammo. Is the ammo all from the same lot?

 

[Harvey_NW]

I ran into a few issues on my zero looking for input. I shoot all factory ammo, Barnes bullets as I am in CA. All standard Tikka stocks, not bedded, but I have free floated the barrel and shot off a Spartan bi-pod and rear bag at 100 yards.

Now I have been through the ringer in the past 6 years...3 junk savages, 3 leupolds (all failed) and 3 years ago drank the koolaide and now have 3 tikkas, with UM rings and NF NXS scopes. I have done the full degrease and properly torqued everything; real bottom metal, torqued action, ring bases and top caps all with locktight. The 7rm is a 1.25" 20 shot group. The 6.5 is about 1.65" group and the 308 has never shot great at 2-2.25". The 308 went threw 3 rounds of ceretoke (orange peel, wrong color then the right color, what a mess and may have affected the rifle...unsure).

So here are my last 3 groups with the 308 over the last 18 months. What did cahnge from the 2nd and 3rd round is I read about if your bolt handle touches the stock it can be an isue so I grooved out the stock. Also I could have adjusted my zero wrong last time. You can see my notes on my adjustments. I plan to go back in the winter after season (308 is a back up gun) and shot 10 rounds and see where I am at.

Anyway...and thoughts?

Different lots of ammo? Recoil pins in the UM rings?

Others will grill me for this, but I've had issues in a factory configuration by not actually seating the action slot against the recoil lug by dropping it on the butt before torquing the action screws to final spec.

 

[2-Stix]

Different lots of ammo? Recoil pins in the UM rings?

Others will grill me for this, but I've had issues in a factory configuration by not actually seating the action slot against the recoil lug by dropping it on the butt before torquing the action screws to final spec.

Same ammo lot. Yes recoil pins in the UM rings. Yes, it was all seated correctly in the action blocks then torqued the rear then front action screw.

My first thought is... Where is your aim point? If it's bullseye then why are you not adjusting your 100 yard zero properly? It's impossible to tell if your zero has shifted if you don't know what the true zero is to start with.

My second thought is... 10 shots at 100 yards into a 2 MOA circle isn't unrealistic, particularly with that ammo. Is the ammo all from the same lot?

Sorry you needed that info. The bulleye is my aim point, and I should be 2.25" high as I am zeroed for 200.

Yes same lot. I agree, 2" on the 308 is about right. But I had a significant shift up of 1.25" after accounting for the .5" adjustment after last session.

Maybe I need to start adjusting at the range and use a few follow up shots vs coming home to adjust and then proffing the next time out.

Also the red target was my RTZ test. That shoud not change anything but just an FYI.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Maybe I need to start adjusting at the range and use a few follow up shots vs coming home to adjust and then proffing the next time out.

This, I usually check with at least 3 after an adjustment.

Although uncommon, a Nightforce failure isn't impossible.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Same ammo lot. Yes recoil pins in the UM rings. Yes, it was all seated correctly in the action blocks then torqued the rear then front action screw.

Sorry you needed that info. The bulleye is my aim point, and I should be 2.25" high as I am zeroed for 200.

This is not the way to maintain a solid zero. Zero at 100 and shoot a 10 shot group.

Yes same lot. I agree, 2" on the 308 is about right. But I had a significant shift up of 1.25" after accounting for the .5" adjustment after last session.

You don't know, you're chasing a potential 2" cone with "2.25 inches" high sight in. You cannot possibly "be 2.25" high" when you're gun is shooting the cones that it is. You're bringing way more error into this. Get a good and solid 100 yard 10 shot zero, all shots aiming at the bullseye and landing in the cone and report back.

Maybe I need to start adjusting at the range and use a few follow up shots vs coming home to adjust and then proffing the next time out.

Yes. This is the way.

Also the red target was my RTZ test. That shoud not change anything but just an FYI.

 

[2-Stix]

This is not the way to maintain a solid zero. Zero at 100 and shoot a 10 shot group.

You don't know, you're chasing a potential 2" cone with "2.25 inches" high sight in. You cannot possibly "be 2.25" high" when you're gun is shooting the cones that it is. You're bringing way more error into this. Get a good and solid 100 yard 10 shot zero, all shots aiming at the bullseye and landing in the cone and report back.

Yes. This is the way.

I shoot at 100 yards at the bulls eye. I have shot 20 shot groups at 100 a few times to know the cone of accuracy on my 308. I adjusted up to be landing 2.25" high (so that I am zeroed for 200). How is that a problem? All 3 of my rifles I shoot at 100 yards, but have adjusted up to be zeroed for 200. This is the only one I have found moving.

 

[rookieforever33]

I ran into a few issues on my zero looking for input. I shoot all factory ammo, Barnes bullets as I am in CA. All standard Tikka stocks, not bedded, but I have free floated the barrel and shot off a Spartan bi-pod and rear bag at 100 yards.

Now I have been through the ringer in the past 6 years...3 junk savages, 3 leupolds (all failed) and 3 years ago drank the koolaide and now have 3 tikkas, with UM rings and NF NXS scopes. I have done the full degrease and properly torqued everything; real bottom metal, torqued action, ring bases and top caps all with locktight. The 7rm is a 1.25" 20 shot group. The 6.5 is about 1.65" group and the 308 has never shot great at 2-2.25". The 308 went threw 3 rounds of ceretoke (orange peel, wrong color then the right color, what a mess and may have affected the rifle...unsure).

So here are my last 3 groups with the 308 over the last 18 months. What did cahnge from the 2nd and 3rd round is I read about if your bolt handle touches the stock it can be an isue so I grooved out the stock. Also I could have adjusted my zero wrong last time. You can see my notes on my adjustments. I plan to go back in the winter after season (308 is a back up gun) and shot 10 rounds and see where I am at.

Anyway...and thoughts?

Have you tried lower weight barnes bullets? Since copper is lighter the bulluts need to be longer for the same weight. Longer bullets need more twist. Try 150 or even the 130gr TTSX. My .308 has a 1:12 and shoots regular 150gr great. Accuracy goes down as weights go up. The 165gr copper I tried was my worst groups.

 

[Jordan Smith]

I shoot at 100 yards at the bulls eye. I have shot 20 shot groups at 100 a few times to know the cone of accuracy on my 308. I adjusted up to be landing 2.25" high (so that I am zeroed for 200). How is that a problem? All 3 of my rifles I shoot at 100 yards, but have adjusted up to be zeroed for 200. This is the only one I have found moving.

It's not, as long as you can verify your zero at 100 when needed (like in this case).

 

[2-Stix]

Have you tried lower weight barnes bullets? Since copper is lighter the bulluts need to be longer for the same weight. Longer bullets need more twist. Try 150 or even the 130gr TTSX. My .308 has a 1:12 and shoots regular 150gr great. Accuracy goes down as weights go up. The 165gr copper I tried was my worst groups.

I ran 4 different factory cartridges when I started out about 4 years ago with this rifle. Nosler 168et, Barnes 168 ttsx, and Federal with TSX 150 and TSX 165. The 165 shot best. I am less concerned with the group size, but more with the group moving up about 1"-1.5". The windage was fine.

 

[1000yards]

Starting another rifle since the CZ550/Leupold VX-7 lost zero again.

Ruger Hawkeye All Weather, bedded and free floating
30-06
20.5" barrel
Omega 300 w/ 419 hellfire mount
135 Apex at 3150 fps
Trijicon Credo HX 2.5-15x42
Alaskan Arms Rings, nail polish and liquid tape
97°F

Bore sighted, fired two rounds, corrected, fired ten rounds.

 

[Macintosh]

First suppressor, getting to know how my rifles behave when moving the suppressor back and forth between rifles. Basically convincing myself the zero wont shift if I remove and then replace the suppressor, and seeing what the poi shift is with & without. I’ll keep verifying a bit, but so far seems to be repeatable. There appears to be a .5mil shift up when I remove suppressor, probably a tenth left as well. Gun is still zeroed, but not been thru much rough handling, this is more a suppressor test than a zero check

In this order:
5 rounds with suppressor (top)
5 rounds without (bottom)
5 rounds with (right)

(Gun is zeroed for different ammo, Im aware my zero as pictured is a tenth low)

 

[1000yards]

Ruger Hawkeye All Weather, bedded and free floating
30-06
20.5" barrel
Omega 300 w/ 419 hellfire mount
135 Apex at 3150 fps
Trijicon Credo HX 2.5-15x42
Alaskan Arms Rings, nail polish and liquid tape
87°F




I could use some help on this one. The first 10 shot group was about 1 MOA higher than where I had left it. No drops or bumps, rifle went from the safe to the case to the range. I adjusted down 0.5 MOA and let the rifle sit for about an hour. Things got wild on the next 10 shot group. First shot was that high and left flyer. Strange because the shot felt good and I had been shooting great all morning. Everything after that kept going lower and to the left.

Does anybody know what's causing this? My point of impact moved up 1 MOA, and then a 0.5 MOA adjustment down moved the point of impact 1.5 MOA down and 0.5 MOA right. On top of that my group opened up -even if I discount that flyer, the group size still went from 1.5 to 2.2 MOA.

I think I'm dealing with more than one issue here and I have some ideas.

Barrel heat. The fact that the impacts consistently moved from left to right makes me think it's a barrel heat issue. It is a factory Ruger barrel from 2010, so I'm not sure if those were stress relieved.

Liquid tape on the scope rings. I installed this scope with liquid tape on the inside of the rings as per the manufacturer's recommendation. I've never heard of anyone else doing this and now I'm wondering if this could be the issue.

Clean barrel. I didn't really clean the barrel, but after shooting last time I ran a patch of CLP through it, then two dry patches before I shot it.

 

[2-Stix]

I believe there was a test on here that barrle heat causes about a 1-2 10ths of a MOA in group growth...so from a 1.2moa to a 1.3/4moa.

Clean barrel does change things.

The tape...never heard of using it.

I have a similar issue I have not gone back to proof out.

 

[Castle Rock]

Ruger Hawkeye All Weather, bedded and free floating
30-06
20.5" barrel
Omega 300 w/ 419 hellfire mount
135 Apex at 3150 fps
Trijicon Credo HX 2.5-15x42
Alaskan Arms Rings, nail polish and liquid tape
87°F

View attachment 927643
View attachment 927644


I could use some help on this one. The first 10 shot group was about 1 MOA higher than where I had left it. No drops or bumps, rifle went from the safe to the case to the range. I adjusted down 0.5 MOA and let the rifle sit for about an hour. Things got wild on the next 10 shot group. First shot was that high and left flyer. Strange because the shot felt good and I had been shooting great all morning. Everything after that kept going lower and to the left.

Does anybody know what's causing this? My point of impact moved up 1 MOA, and then a 0.5 MOA adjustment down moved the point of impact 1.5 MOA down and 0.5 MOA right. On top of that my group opened up -even if I discount that flyer, the group size still went from 1.5 to 2.2 MOA.

I think I'm dealing with more than one issue here and I have some ideas.

Barrel heat. The fact that the impacts consistently moved from left to right makes me think it's a barrel heat issue. It is a factory Ruger barrel from 2010, so I'm not sure if those were stress relieved.

Liquid tape on the scope rings. I installed this scope with liquid tape on the inside of the rings as per the manufacturer's recommendation. I've never heard of anyone else doing this and now I'm wondering if this could be the issue.

Clean barrel. I didn't really clean the barrel, but after shooting last time I ran a patch of CLP through it, then two dry patches before I shot it.

That is what is known as the Leupold shuffle.
First shot shows no apparent movement until recoil moves the erector, then it shuffles to its final position which often isn’t where it ought to go.
A scope that hasn’t been dialed much is far more likely to do this, the turrets need to get a little bit of use on them to work more accurately.

Usually if you only want to move a click or so it pays to dial 10 up then back down the 8 or 9 required so the final movement is compressing the erector spring, not relieving pressure on it.