Scope Rings/Mount quality

[TSAMP]

I've read a few of the recent articles on quality optics and the testing thereof. I wanted to inquire on folks thoughts/experienced on rings and mounts more specifically. As someone who wouldn't see much benefit from a high dollar scope, how much do I need to spend for good rings/mounts?

I own a few varmint rifles. One being a .204 AR. It was Frankensteined together a couple years ago by a friend of mine and never shot what I would call well. It's a 14 twist barrel.

Took it to a different friend recently and he disassembled and cleaned it and shot it. He's getting around 1.5" groups now with one specific factory ammo. Still seeing fliers in almost every 5 shot group. He did point out a thread protector that stuck out past the end of the barrel as a culprit for inaccuracies.

He stated new rings/scope would also get it shooting better. I don't follow how that would cause inconsistencies like I see.

It has a Vortex cm202 1 piece mount with a burris full field IV 3x12x56.


What say you experts?

 

[SDHNTR]

Clean the gun well. Scrap all optics and mounts. Start over with known reliable scope and bases/rings, mounted properly. If not a handloader, source 3-4 different types of factory ammo at different bullet weights. Shoot 10 shot groups of each. Find which one shoots the best group and buy a whole bunch more of that ammo.

 

[TSAMP]

Clean the gun well. Scrap all optics and mounts. Start over with known reliable scope and bases/rings, mounted properly. If not a handloader, source 3-4 different types of factory ammo at different bullet weights. Shoot 10 shot groups of each. Find which one shoots the best group and buy a whole bunch more of that ammo.

So I went down that road. Found the best shooting factory ammo already. This is the second scope now. Same mount though.

What makes a quality setup? 500 dollar mount? 1k scope? It's a coyote gun for 300 yards max.


My point of reference for accuracy is I have a 250 dollar savage 17hmr that shoots dime groups. I have maybe $200 total for scope/mounts on that gun.

Perhaps I should shut up and live with the AR as is.

 

[SDHNTR]

Money has little to do with reliability in optics. More money doesn’t automatically buy you better construction.

If on a budget, buy a 6x Swfa. Buy a quality pic rail, bed it if needed (receiver bridge uneven), and use known quality rings like Nightforce, Hawkins, Seekins, ARC, Farrel, etc. you’ll be into the whole shebang for under $500 and won’t have any issues.

 

[sndmn11]

I think you'd have to try a few times to find a set of rings that are the weak link.

 

[Bluehawk]

I use Talley light weight rings on all of my firearms including my muzzle loaders. I try to use one piece if I can. Though they say that lapping the rings is un-necessary I still do it. I have been very pleased with them.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

most picatinny rings are going to get the job done - I used burris XTRs on a 50 bmg for a decade with no scope slippage/rotation, they are something like $60 per set. Vertical split rings are awful - avoid at all costs.

Improperly mounted scopes can mess you up, Form has a great thread on mounting scopes to maintain zero. However, in general, scopes are the weakest link, and many/most have wandering zeros or perform erratically when subjected to recoil or drops. Of course, barrels can also be picky or crap, and that might be your problem. In your situation, I would:

1. remount the scope using your current rings - shoot and see what happens
2. try a SWFA 6x in any decent pic ring (not the vertically split ones) - shoot and see what happens
3. replace the barrel - shoot and see what happens.

 

[SDHNTR]

I use Talley light weight rings on all of my firearms including my muzzle loaders. I try to use one piece if I can. Though they say that lapping the rings is un-necessary I still do it. I have been very pleased with them.

If you want to use Talley LW, keep scope weight to a minimum. They don’t like heavy scopes and are widely known to crack under stress.

 

[Formidilosus]

I've read a few of the recent articles on quality optics and the testing thereof. I wanted to inquire on folks thoughts/experienced on rings and mounts more specifically. As someone who wouldn't see much benefit from a high dollar scope, how much do I need to spend for good rings/mounts?

I own a few varmint rifles. One being a .204 AR. It was Frankensteined together a couple years ago by a friend of mine and never shot what I would call well. It's a 14 twist barrel.

Took it to a different friend recently and he disassembled and cleaned it and shot it. He's getting around 1.5" groups now with one specific factory ammo. Still seeing fliers in almost every 5 shot group. He did point out a thread protector that stuck out past the end of the barrel as a culprit for inaccuracies.

He stated new rings/scope would also get it shooting better. I don't follow how that would cause inconsistencies like I see.

It has a Vortex cm202 1 piece mount with a burris full field IV 3x12x56.

Are you asking about AR15 rings/mounts or rings and mounts in general?

 

[TSAMP]

Well both for the sake of all. But my immediate concern is for the AR 15.

 

[Hawk3473]

Take it to a local gun shop and have them look it over. I try to buy scopes and guns locally but lately I’ve had to order the scopes online to get what I want. I then take the gun and scope to my local gun shop and have them mount it(they do it for free if I buy the rings from them). I do this as they know what works and what could cause problems. When I say local gun shop I don’t mean Cabelas, Bass Pro or any big box store. They are just trying to sell you something. Any local reputable gun store will only sell you what you need to fix your problem if they see something that is causing your problem.

 

[Formidilosus]

Well both for the sake of all. But my immediate concern is for the AR 15.

You’re mount, provided it is degreased and loctited is very unlikely causing an issue.

You say you are getting a “flyer” every 5 rounds or so? Do you have any ten plus round groups to show? If not, and you have the rifle, shoot a couple of ten round groups at the same point of aim- for a 20 round total group. Then you will know if it is a “flyer” or not. Flyers don’t exist generally- they’re just parr of the real cone that the gun shoots.

 

[SDHNTR]

You’re mount, provided it is degreased and loctited is very unlikely causing an issue.

You say you are getting a “flyer” every 5 rounds or so? Do you have any ten plus round groups to show? If not, and you have the rifle, shoot a couple of ten round groups at the same point of aim- for a 20 round total group. Then you will know if it is a “flyer” or not. Flyers don’t exist generally- they’re just parr of the real cone that the gun shoots.

Or human error.

 

[TSAMP]

I have not shot any 10 rd groups. I'll attach a few images of the most recent shooting done. The rem was also 32 gr. I agree on human error. I think I mostly just wanted a sanity check on my mount scope choice to not chase my tail. Thank you.

 

[TSAMP]

Original grouping from my last trip. The lower two were 40gr and 35 gr.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have not shot any 10 rd groups. I'll attach a few images of the most recent shooting done. The rem was also 32 gr. I agree on human error. I think I mostly just wanted a sanity check on my mount scope choice to not chase my tail. Thank you.

It’s very possible that your scope is jacked, and or your barrel. Putting the scope on a known shooting rifle would check that.

 

[TSAMP]

Thanks, this is the 2nd scope for this rifle but a swap to my 17 hmr would be a good test.

 

[SDHNTR]

I can’t make any sense of those groups. Too much variability. Post a couple 10 shot groups with what is known to be the best ammo.

 

[stanginthe11s]

first thing to realize is it's an AR. while they can be made accurate, they are not known for it. try single feeding without the mag and see if the groups change. what trigger group do you have. there are numerous thing that cause an AR to have "fliers", so I don't think it's an optics issue.