Scope moving in rings

[TaperPin]

If your rings are slipping and threadlocker was used - it’s a pain to clean all the thread locker off just to retorque a little tighter.

The amount of friction bla bla bla, manufacturer‘s recommendation bla bla bla, makes zero difference if the rings are slipping - there’s no way around needing more torque.

 

[4th_point]

I've never read whatever testing or study there is on here or else where. Can you link it? While it might be ad nauseum for you, it would be helpful information for others.

The best search result on here is the thread below, where the slipping was solved by hitting 25inlb.

It wasn’t Talley - it’s apparently me. Scope won’t stay fixed - Update: fixed. Added to first post

Okay, I would have sworn I had ring issues. Contacted Talley, they offered to take them back and spec them out. Ordered Leupold backcountry in the meantime, same exact result. Gun is a Weatherby Cinderlite (lightweight Mark V) in .308. Bone stock. Scope is a SWFA SS 3-9x42 FFP 30mm...

rokslide.com

I know that you directed your question to someone else, but there are various reasons speculated as to why they don't hold and/or fail at various forums. Some people have zero issues, but I can't argue with those that do. Mine cracked at the bases, and not the caps like others have seen.

Regarding the Talley ring mount not being round, that is one that I have not heard of before so I took two sets out of the junk drawer and did a quick check with centerless ground rods. The ring mount base and caps more or less conformed to the rod. One set was 30mm and the other 1", and neither appeared out of round. But I don't know what the other member meant by "not round". He might be thinking of something else being out of spec.

The only other rings I had handy were Seekins and a few SWFA ring mounts. If anything, the Talley were more "round" than either of those.

 

[Gseith]

I had a scope move on me once, and I have mounted a bunch of scopes. Never had a issue before, but I must of missed something. It was on a 300wm with leupold backcountry rings and a vx5 scope.
I took it all off and went through all the steps again. Since then I have shot probably 300 rounds and carried it for over 100 miles and it hasn’t moved.
We’re all human, so maybe you made a mistake. Maybe you just didn’t do something as thorough as you you thought.

 

[SDHNTR]

I know that you directed your question to someone else, but there are various reasons speculated as to why they don't hold and/or fail at various forums. Some people have zero issues, but I can't argue with those that do. Mine cracked at the bases, and not the caps like others have seen.

Regarding the Talley ring mount not being round, that is one that I have not heard of before so I took two sets out of the junk drawer and did a quick check with centerless ground rods. The ring mount base and caps more or less conformed to the rod. One set was 30mm and the other 1", and neither appeared out of round. But I don't know what the other member meant by "not round". He might be thinking of something else being out of spec.

The only other rings I had handy were Seekins and a few SWFA ring mounts. If anything, the Talley were more "round" than either of those.

Take a set of new Talleys. Just the bottom half. Press it onto your scope tube firmly. You’ll notice how it “snaps” on. They are slightly oblong. They are not round. That’s the material’s elasticity conforming to the round tube. The bottom ring half will hold onto the scope tube defying gravity. I’m not going to argue with you. I already regret taking your bait. If this design feature is fine with you, rock on.

For anyone else who really wants to use Talleys, look up Al Nyhus’ prep method on 24hourcampfire. He deals with this issue brilliantly.

Or you can just buy better rings and save yourself the trouble.

 

[4th_point]

Take a set of new Talleys. Just the bottom half. Press it onto your scope tube firmly. You’ll notice how it “snaps” on. They are slightly oblong. They are not round. That’s the material’s elasticity conforming to the round tube. The bottom ring half will hold onto the scope tube defying gravity. I’m not going to argue with you. I already regret taking your bait. If this design feature is fine with you, rock on.

I did that, with brand new 1" and 30mm Talley ringmounts for Kimber 84 rifles.

Scopes drop into place. The bases don't snap, or grip the tube on their own.

Are you thinking of a different design than the ringmount?

The OP mentioned Talley Lightweights for a CA FFT, in the first post. I assumed he meant ringmounts and not basic rings.

 

[SDHNTR]

What is a Talley “ring mount”?

I’m talking about the ubiquitous Talley Lightweights, as stated in the OP. That’s precisely what they are called on the Talley website. Conversely, no “ring mounts” are shown on their website. They are extruded (not machined) aluminum and by design, not round. Anyone who has ever spent any time with them knows this. Your thinly veiled attempt at trolling is obvious.

The dead horse is beat. Anyone experienced with Talleys knows their faults. It’s been covered all over the inter webs at length. Use them, or not. Caveat emptor.

 

[4th_point]

What is a Talley “ring mount”?

I’m talking about the ubiquitous Talley Lightweights, as stated in the OP.

Anyone who has ever spent any time with them knows this. Your thinly veiled attempt at trolling is obvious.

Ring + mount = ringmount

Anyone that has been around rifles should know this! How's that sound?

I'm sorry that this is an emotional topic for you and that you feel like a victim that has been baited. That's not my intention.

You present information that is not correct, then want to run away, and throw insults. That's fine but doesn't help other consumers. Accurate information does.

For those that are still following - these are the ring+mounts that I checked for fit. They do not snap around the scope tube. At least the Kimber models. And I no longer use Talley ringmounts and am not defending them.

 

[chizelhead]

Which rings or ringmounts do use now that you do not use Talleys?

 

[SDHNTR]

I present nothing regarding this matter that is incorrect. They are slightly oblong shaped by design, end of story, wrapped “round” by elasticity of the material, torqued around the scope tube. Designed to pinch as much as to clamp. If that seems like a good design to you, have at it. A simple google search (took me all of 10 seconds) will reveal posts just like this… by the dozens. This isn’t new. Or just drop a lapping bar in your “ring mounts” and hit it with a few strokes. It will become obvious real quickly.

 

[chizelhead]

I just ordered NF ultralite rings 6 screw. I also ordered a Fix It Stick 0-25 in lb torque driver. Borka is unavailable. Thanks everyone for your participation. I learned a lot and appreciate all the insight.

 

[SDHNTR]

I just ordered NF ultralite rings 6 screw. I also ordered a Fix It Stick 0-25 in lb torque driver. Borka is unavailable. Thanks everyone for your participation. I learned a lot and appreciate all the insight.

Now we’re talking!

 

[greyghostnw]

I just ordered NF ultralite rings 6 screw. I also ordered a Fix It Stick 0-25 in lb torque driver. Borka is unavailable. Thanks everyone for your participation. I learned a lot and appreciate all the insight.

Great choice. Standard of greatness. NF no need to lap also void’s warranty for heads up. Your fix it stick will need ability for 68 inch pounds as well for hex nuts on rings to base as well. Good luck!

 

[4th_point]

Which rings or ringmounts do use now that you do not use Talleys?

The last one that I bought is a NF Ultralite Unimount. I like it fine, but it left some marks on a Gucci scope at 15 in-lb. I used a calibrated beam-type torque wrench and didn't notice any defects or burrs on the edge, so was a bit surprised to see knife edge marks in the finish. I sent the scope in for other warranty work and the tube was replaced free of charge. A different scope was installed after knocking down the edges of the Unimount. I didn't detect any misalignment of the mount either.

I have more Seekins rings on 1913 rails than anything else. The .82" low model is a bit thin where the clamp engages though. I haven't seen any failures there, but there have been a few reported.

 

[4th_point]

I present nothing regarding this matter that is incorrect. They are slightly oblong shaped by design, end of story, wrapped “round” by elasticity of the material, torqued around the scope tube. Designed to pinch as much as to clamp. If that seems like a good design to you, have at it. A simple google search (took me all of 10 seconds) will reveal posts just like this… by the dozens. This isn’t new. Or just drop a lapping bar in your “ring mounts” and hit it with a few strokes. It will become obvious real quickly.

Thanks for the post but I have Talley ringmounts in hand, so I can see it with my own eyes. I used a centerless ground rod as a simple inspection gage as mentioned previously.

Nothing oblong about this one. Here's an actual scope for visual reference, which is a 30mm SWFA. With a 30mm Talley resting on the main tube. There was no snapping of the ringmount onto the tube, as you mentioned. No defying of gravity. It'll fall off if bumped.

 

[SDHNTR]

Thanks for the post but I have Talley ringmounts in hand, so I can see it with my own eyes. I used a centerless ground rod as a simple inspection gage as mentioned previously.

Nothing oblong about this one. Here's an actual scope for visual reference, which is a 30mm SWFA. With a 30mm Talley resting on the main tube. There was no snapping of the ringmount onto the tube, as you mentioned. No defying of gravity. It'll fall off if bumped.

View attachment 605515

Is that a new set? Perhaps they finally improved things. I’ve seen dozens of sets and don’t think I’ve ever seen one fit without pinching. I will, however, admit it’s been a few years since I’ve installed a pair.

I just quickly dug these out of my boneyard box. I don’t have an unlapped set to test and post a pic of, but you can clearly see the common lapping wear pattern here showing how they come slightly egg shaped. In my experience, they all consistently wear like this, obviously not round.

 

[SDHNTR]

Another pic I found right here on this site:

 

[JohnJohnson]

I just ordered NF ultralite rings 6 screw. I also ordered a Fix It Stick 0-25 in lb torque driver. Borka is unavailable. Thanks everyone for your participation. I learned a lot and appreciate all the insight.

You can't go wrong with either. I love my Fix-It Sticks and the NF rings are proven. Much easier for people to just buy quality rings rather than trying to modify bad ones.

 

[4th_point]

Is that a new set? Perhaps they finally improved things.

The SKU numbers on mine match what Talley lists on their website (938749, 738749) but they are actually several years old. When my first set cracked at the base, I didn't want anything to do with them anymore so these sit in the junk drawer for the remote chance that one of the fasteners is needed for something else.

It's too bad they have issues. I liked the design on the 84M.

Now that I think about it, between myself and some friends I bet 50% of the sets were missing fasteners. The customer service has always been great, but the fact that they couldn't even get the fastener count correct was disappointing.

 

[4th_point]

I just quickly dug these out of my boneyard box. I don’t have an unlapped set to test and post a pic of, but you can clearly see the common lapping wear pattern here showing how they come slightly egg shaped. In my experience, they all consistently wear like this, obviously not round.

I wonder if it's just poor QC than actual design intent. Talley may have just lost control of their processes, with some closer to nominal like mine and others way out as shown in your pictures.

I did a hardness test on mine that cracked, but that doesn't tell us much. The lab engineer offered to run a material test on them but I lost interest.

 

[Boarmaster]

I would get new rings. If you want to try Talleys again great. If not great. I use Talleys LW on all my 10 standard rifles No issues for the approx 10 years I been using them. With all the reports of cracking I might consider another route. I would not use them on magnums.

I own two magnums and they wear Warnes. No issues with warnes either.

If you got a bad set of rings then get them out of your life.