Scope mounting to maintain zero

@Formidilosus rereading this thread again for all the useful info, and want to clarify one thing--are paint pens and nail polish fully interchangeable, or is nail polish primarily for threadlocking scope rings and paint pen for action screws and scope bases, since there's more torque applied to those and paint pens provide more hold?

I've got access to plenty of free nail polish and being the cheapskate I am, would be great to standardize and solely use that on all my rifle assembly needs. But reliability trumps frugality, so want to make sure I'm not relying on nail polish for applications it can't handle.
 
@Formidilosus rereading this thread again for all the useful info, and want to clarify one thing--are paint pens and nail polish fully interchangeable, or is nail polish primarily for threadlocking scope rings and paint pen for action screws and scope bases, since there's more torque applied to those and paint pens provide more hold?

I've got access to plenty of free nail polish and being the cheapskate I am, would be great to standardize and solely use that on all my rifle assembly needs. But reliability trumps frugality, so want to make sure I'm not relying on nail polish for applications it can't handle.


Nope. Nail polish for everything for me. It holds better, longer, with fewer (no) issues so far in hundreds of rifles.

All three (Blue Loctite, paint pen, nail polish) work generally. However Blue Loctite it is not unusual to have the screw be wet still weeks or months later- regardless of how perfectly it is applied (see below).
Paint pens generally work, but I have seen a couple that did not really hold- mainly due it seems to how thin the paint is.
Nail polish is thick enough that it stays, dries well, and so far in hundreds and guns, not one time has a screw loosened or has the polish been wet when taking them apart.


At the S2H class last week, a scope was removed from a rifle that was put together last year following loctites exact instructions. The loctite in one screw was still wet, and that screw loosened easier than all the others.

IMG_6507.jpeg
 
Loctite is anaerobic. It wont cure properly if there's oxygen present. It has some quirks. If the screw fit isn't great it doesn't work very well.

Judging from the picture, they may have been a little bit stingy with it. We usually put a solid line of it from the base of the head to the end of the screw.
 
I'm having this problem with loctite. Not on my rifle, but my motor build. It refuses to cure. It stays wet on the surface of bolts. I'm using it external of the threads, and only on the bolt head of an air intake. Just refuses to cure. Is nail polish better ?
 
Most loctite compounds won't cure that way. It has to be deprived of oxygen to cure, which only happens if it's smashed into extremely tight tolerances. It isn't 100% clear what you are trying to do but it sounds like you need a sealant or adhesive sealant.

If you're just using it for marking them, a paint pen works great. Nail polish would work as well but it will likely fade quickly due to the heat.
 
I have 2 little screws already in place, in a throttle body. If they loosen up, they get sucked into the engine, and I'm screwed. So my plan was to use loctite on the screw head, to the mating surface. But that plan failed. The Loctite never hardened up. So now I will steal my wife's polish and try again.
 
That being the case, I would remove them, clean them, put nuclear grade loctite on them properly and reinstall.

Painting over the head of an already installed screw isn't going to do anything for it without using some nuclear grade stuff anyway. Nail polish is not going to do much of anything either unless they are set screws in past the the top of the hole where the paint can plug the threads up
 
@Formidilosus I was hoping you could provide some insight for proven 30mm cantilever mounts designed for the AR platform? I’ve found myself gravitating towards the Lower 1/3 mounts (1.7”) following a neck injury but can’t find if Reptilia or Badger has been explicitly tested.
 
After multiple requests for an explanation of how to mount a scope in order to have the lowest possibility of loss of zero, a discussion of a scope mounting video, and the latest thread about scope bases and action screw coming loose, I took some pics of what I do with a rifle when I get it and how I mount scopes (or anything with screws).

To start- a bit of background of why I say what I say.

I am a backpack hunter. What I write below is tailored to hunting.

Having sid that, I work at a place that fires a lot of ammo. I see over half a million rounds a year on average get fired. 90% of those rounds are tracked. Weapon zeros are checked nearly daily, scopes, mounts, rifles, ammo, etc, are being tested constantly. If a rifle has even a .5 MOA shift in zero we will see it almost immediately. My thoughts are this- scopes are an aiming device. They are a container to hold my reticle so that I can hit targets. I do not care about scratches, dings, or ring marks. I do care that the bullets go where the crosshairs are pointed. My first requirment is that the rifle stays zeroed through use. To do that the mounts, rings, and action screws can not come loose.

The #1 reason that we see for loss of zero is failure to mount optics correctly. The #2 reason is the optics themselves failing. This applies to hunting rifles as well. #2 has been discussed several times so I will leave that one alone.


Here we go....


Some principles:

1) Things don't shoot "tight", they shoot "loose".

2) Oil and greas helps things move/keeps things from sticking together (this includes oil from fingers)

3) Under torquing screws helps them shoot loose. Over torquing breaks things.

4) Manufacturers apply oil to every metal component to keep it from rusting. Every screw, every base, ever ring has oil on out of the box.

5) Manufactures generally offer info that keeps customer service calls down. When it comes to scope mounting- Ring manufactures generally get calls for rings and mounts "marking" scope tubes. Scope manufactures generally get calls for crimped scope tube causing erector issues. The first is a bit of improper alignment and over torquing, the second is overtightening and fragile scope tubes.

6) The farther apart the rings are, the better support for the scope tube. Ring spacing is a thing.



All the parts for those that will ask-

Howa 6.5 Grendel
SWFA SS 3-9x42mm
Seekins Pic Rings
Burris XTR Bases
Hand tools
Acetone or break cleaner
Blue Loctite, paint pen, or finger nail polish
Napkins and Q-Tips
Scale because someone will ask....









Take the rifle apart. Brand new out of the box. That is oil on the screw. Aka- it will come loose Aka- loss of zero.

1wElcd9.jpg






Spray brake cleaner or dip the action screws in acetone. Wipe with a clean rag.
7jw75cU.jpg






Next is the action base holes. Spray/wipe down the action and inside the screw holes to remove oil.
o9gNiJF.jpg







This is oul on tbe Q-tip. Aka- loss of zero.
gNFWC7d.jpg







Next is to wioe dowm down the bases. Oil here too.
yp6sVaP.jpg







Next the base screws. Oil here.
7YTvtQR.jpg
Weaver quad lock rings tend to hold really well
 
@Formidilosus I was hoping you could provide some insight for proven 30mm cantilever mounts designed for the AR platform? I’ve found myself gravitating towards the Lower 1/3 mounts (1.7”) following a neck injury but can’t find if Reptilia or Badger has been explicitly tested.
Those are both excellent choices, as is the Geissele.

-J
 
@Formidilosus I was hoping you could provide some insight for proven 30mm cantilever mounts designed for the AR platform? I’ve found myself gravitating towards the Lower 1/3 mounts (1.7”) following a neck injury but can’t find if Reptilia or Badger has been explicitly tested.

Nightforce, Geissele.
 
Any love or hate for the Area 419 cantilever rings? I have been using their tactical one-piece mount this year on my NRL guns with great success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Might have been asked, apologies if so.

Can I use finger nail polish remover or rubbing alcohol as a degreaser?

And taking the action/barrel from the stock, get the factory torque specs when reassembling?
Do you all “paint” those bolts as well?
 
Two questions: 1. Nail polish for action screws too? 2. Are you applying nail polish and immediately assembling or allowing the polish to dry before assembly?
1. Everything, including action screws and bolt that attches the trigger group to the action.
2. Assemble while wet, same as blue loctite. The whole point of nail polish is that it cures in situations where blue loctite sometimes won't, but application is the same.
 
Did you ever apply nail polish to the heads afterwards ?? So the top of the head is stuck to the metal.
I've only used nail polish and/or paint pen as witness marks on the tops, after torqueing to spec. Never all around the head as any sort of additional "lock." I've only been nail polishing my fasteners for 12-18 months, but have tried to stick to all the best practices Form has stated in this thread. So far I haven't had any issues with fasteners coming loose.
 
Might have been asked, apologies if so.

Can I use finger nail polish remover or rubbing alcohol as a degreaser?

And taking the action/barrel from the stock, get the factory torque specs when reassembling?
Do you all “paint” those bolts as well?
Pretty sure I've read @Formidilosus say brake cleaner first choice, alcohol second choice, even when cleaning nail polish from threads to reapply/refasten. But I could be wrong. I'd be curious to hear confirmation on that too.
 
nail polish remover is acetone, and is a great degreaser. Fuel alcohol is not quite as good as acetone, and rubbing alcohol is not very good at all.
 
Never all around the head as any sort of additional "lock."


The proper way to retain a fastener from the head that is recessed like that is to peen it. The AR15 snobs would call it "staking" like you do with the castle nut on the buttstock of an AR. Gooping paint around the head doesn't really do anything other than give a witness reference and maybe seal it from contaminats.
 
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