Scope mounting loctite or not?

[Jpsmith1]

I just had a properly torqued base come loose without loctite.

Fortunately, I caught it before thread damage was done and the gun needed Smith work.

I won't install without loctite and proper torque

 

[Jpsmith1]

Reason is a dry screw will cause too much friction within the threads and you will never get the proper torque spec. You also don't want to over oil. Just a drop and you can wipe off the excess as long as they're not dry.

If they're specced dry, torque them dry. If they're specced oiled, oil them.

 

[CampSmith]

I just had a properly torqued base come loose without loctite.

Fortunately, I caught it before thread damage was done and the gun needed Smith work.

I won't install without loctite and proper torque

Absolutely will without loctite and proper torque

 

[Shortschaf]

Preface: I'm a mechanical engineer

Most manufacturers will ship rings with screws that are lightly oiled. As far as using loctite on rings it is not recommended. Here's something right off the Talley website. View attachment 701458

The above is nothing more than a standard disclaimer that companies do to avoid warrantying things. It has NO basis on mechanical performance. They also don't recommend lapping, which speaks for itself.

I guess you can oil your screws (or not degrease them) to improve torque consistency, avoid corrosion, and be more prone to vibrational loosening.

Or you can loctite your screws to improve torque consistancy, avoid corrosion, and be less prone to vibrational loosening.

Your choice. It's not rocket science



EDIT: To any future readers of this thread who are just looking for direction on this topic, you will not find any value hereafter until page 16, post #318 by @Macintosh

Scope mounting loctite or not?

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[westsloper]

Yes, use loctite. In every case.

 

[CampSmith]

No it's not rocket science. But those out there that are not familiar with scope mounting or any maintenance /work on firearms can use sound advice not sarcasm. As for wet and dry specs you won't find any mention of that with regard to firearms. You will in the automotive and industrial fields. Ask me how I know. Most of what works and what doesn't comes with experience. Yes I recommend lapping rings also. I've seen too many so called "high end" rings need lapping.

 

[Ram94]

Really? Don't give the kid the wrong info. I've been hunting over 40 years and in my state we use slug guns and muzzleloaders. Their recoil energy make a 300 win mag look like a .243. Guess what I've never had a scope vibrate loose. My trophy room can verify if you'd like. Loctite all bases and lightly oil your ring screws.

Sorry, I didn’t realize I was dealing with a badass.

 

[CampSmith]

Sorry, I didn’t realize I was dealing with a badass.

Lol, just been around the block a few times. Nobody knows everything including me. That's why these forums are a great place to share info and experiences. I'm all for breaking balls believe me but just leave the sarcasm at the door. Especially when someone new is just looking for advice.

 

[Ram94]

Lol, just been around the block a few times. Nobody knows everything including me. That's why these forums are a great place to share info and experiences. I'm all for breaking balls believe me but just leave the sarcasm at the door. Especially when someone new is just looking for advice.

Snide remarks aside, I honestly think that oiling cap screws is bad practice. You said loctite is not necessary because they’re under tension, but that is the case for base screws as well and you’re loctiting those. What harm is there in using loctite rather than oil? Both will be a wet torque anyways, and one will ensure the screws stay put, while the other will ensure they don’t.

 

[Valumpessa]

Had 2 ring screws go loose after being properly torqued. That was enough for me. I blue loctite everything now.

 

[SDHNTR]

People are out there ADDING oil to their scope mounts and wonder why they missed that chip shot.

Clean the oil off and loctite.

Another example illustrating the need for a thumbs down button.

 

[Kurts86]

The only real downside to loctite is that it can gum up threads that are unscrewed, not cleaned and reinstalled with more loctite. Loctite 242 is a one time use thing whereas Vibra-tite VC3 and some of the loctite tapes are designed for or at least are more tolerant of reuse.

Loctite will slightly lower your torque value because the friction coefficient drops slight from dry torque. If you look at #6 screw you get the same clamping force at 26 in-lbs dry, 22 in-lbs with loctite or 20 in-lbs with tap oil. Most torque values are specified dry.

You could argue that oil is a good barrier to prevent galvanic corrosion but so is loctite. Loctite will prevent unscrewing due to vibration whereas oil will not. For that reason I see no reason to oil screws. If galvanic corrosion is really a problem anti-seize is a better option than oil and it has the same friction coefficient as loctite.

I use loctite on all my optics mounting because I do not see a performance downside to it. It maybe unnecessary and make a mess but it gives me piece of mind. It’s commonly pre-installed on optics screws or provided by OEM’s so it isn’t a bad thing. In my view using thread locker on optics mounts goes hand in hand with using a torque wrench and painting witness marks on screws after installation.

 

[CampSmith]

Snide remarks aside, I honestly think that oiling cap screws is bad practice. You said loctite is not necessary because they’re under tension, but that is the case for base screws as well and you’re loctiting those. What harm is there in using loctite rather than oil? Both with be a wet torque anyways, and one will ensure the screws stay put, while the other will ensure they don’t.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. It's absolutely not bad practice. I've had bases many years ago come loose from being installed with no loctite. But I've never encountered a ring vibrate loose if torqued properly. That's why it's not recommended by the vast majority of ring manufacturers no matter how high end. Like I said earlier my 7lb muzzleloader that shoots 280 grain bullets behind 120 grains of Blackhorn 209 traveling 2050 fps. has 45.7 ftlbs of recoil energy. The average .300 win mag with 180 grain bullet traveling 3000 ft per sec has a recoil energy of 29 ft lbs. That muzzleloaders scope has been mounted that way for over 10 years. Guess what it never vibrated loose in all that time.

 

[CampSmith]

In the end everyone has to do whatever makes them happy. Like you said removing blue loctite is a real pain in the ass. Remember lightly oiled is just what I said not dripping with oil. I wipe off excess just so they're not bone dry. Installing dry is bad for corrosion and because of dissimilar metals can cause gaulling. Anti- seize is good but will increase your torque values over lightly oiled. I've mounted dozens of scopes this way over the years and never had anyone bring a gun back to me for a loose ring or scope.

 

[Shortschaf]

No it's not rocket science. But those out there that are not familiar with scope mounting or any maintenance /work on firearms can use sound advice not sarcasm. As for wet and dry specs you won't find any mention of that with regard to firearms. You will in the automotive and industrial fields. Ask me how I know. Most of what works and what doesn't comes with experience. Yes I recommend lapping rings also. I've seen too many so called "high end" rings need lapping.

For what it's worth, I mean zero sarcasm in my original comment

Yes, you are right that lubed threads have a place in precision assembly. Loctite lubes threads too. And there is no con to using it properly in this application.

Therefore I think the suggestion for oiling scope ring screws has no place in the conversation since the alternative (loctite) will also prevent loosening

 

[BigAl!]

Blue loctite or Vibra-tite VC-3 on everything. Works for me.

 

[CampSmith]

For what it's worth, I mean zero sarcasm in my original comment

Yes, you are right that lubed threads have a place in precision assembly. Loctite lubes threads too. And there is no con to using it properly in this application.

Therefore I think the suggestion for oiling scope ring screws has no place in the conversation since the alternative (loctite) will also prevent loosening

Yes I agree it will lubricate the threads. The post reads Scope mounting loctite or not. I've been using loctite exclusively on bases not rings for years. So oiling does has a place in this post. When mounting a scope I was trying to point out yes I use it and where I think it's necessary. I have to attach pics obviously you guys are associating oiling or lubing with excessive use.

 

[Macintosh]

Fwiw, as far as loosening, I dont worry about heavy recoil vs light recoil, I worry about frequency of recoil and vibration. I never had a ring or base come loose until I started shooting a thousand+ rounds/year. Sure enough, rings and bases started loosening on everything from 22lr to bigger centerfire rifles, until I started using threadlocker.

 

[CampSmith]

Fwiw, as far as loosening, I dont worry about heavy recoil vs light recoil, I worry about frequency of recoil and vibration. I never had a ring or base come loose until I started shooting a thousand+ rounds/year. Sure enough, rings and bases started loosening on everything from 22lr to bigger centerfire rifles, until I started using threadlocker.

If that's your experience than you did what you deemed necessary. As long as it works for you. Is all that matters. Also recoil energy absolutely matters. That kind of energy will loosen with far less shooting.

 

[CampSmith]

Screw on the left is lightly oiled on the right is dry. Had to post this because some took this out of context. Also here is a custom shop tech from Seekins Precision i just emailed to get his input.