Scope for european hunting rifle custom build

[ssimo]

Hi, i recently got a new job with good salary so of course i suddenly ordered a custom rifle it is a 308, with a Defiance ga hunter action and bartlein #3 contour 22 inch barrel with a manners mcs-t stock. It will be amazing. I just have to choose a scope to put on it.
The rifle will be used for hunting with shots inside 500 yards. The system must be very accurate because i will shoot also small roe deer and the ideal shot placement is more or less a 5 inch circle in those small animals. The rifle will weight between 11 and 11.5 lbs with bipod, sling and the scope (11.5 with a 30 oz scope, 11 with a lighter one). This weight is ideal for me since i am young and fit and i already have a couple lighter rifles for stalking inside 250 yards.

About the scope, i thought:
-weight max 30 oz
-30 mm tube (i just don't need the larger ones keeping shots inside 500 yards)
-50 mm bell
-min magnification between 2 and 4
-max magnification between 12 and 20
-if the max magnification is 15 or lower, i could consider also a SFP cause i would take most shots when i need to use the reticle for windage holds at max power anyway
-exposed elevation turret
-exposed or capped windage turret
-MIL turret/MIL reticle. Here in Italy we only use metric system and it's much easier to work with MILs for me
-i give more importance to reliability and tracking than to image quality (i shot often at dawn so the image must be decent)

I have no budget limits but i don't want TT, ZCO, swaro or USO scopes (i prefer more traditional looking scopes)

European scope makers, a part from S&B, seem not to put MIL reticle on any hunting scope so compensating for wind becomes even more challenging than already is.
For me the NF nxs 3.5-15x50 SFP would have been PERFECT but it seems that there isn't a MIL version.. how is that? It seems absurd to me!

I already have a SHV 4-14x50 F1 which is amazing for me but, since the rifle costed me 8k USD (european prices ahah), i thought that this rifle deserves a higher quality scope. I could be wrong on this.

Thanks guys

 

[wildcat33]

Its customary for the first post to respond to a question that wasnt asked. So here goes: You could have less compensation for wind, less compensation for elevation, less recoil and still have enough killing power by going to a 6mm instead of a 308win.

Without thinking about it too hard, I would pick a NF NX8.

 

[ssimo]

Its customary for the first post to respond to a question that wasnt asked. So here goes: You could have less compensation for wind, less compensation for elevation, less recoil and still have enough killing power by going to a 6mm instead of a 308win.

Without thinking about it too hard, I would pick a NF NX8.

I was sure someone would have wrote this. I choose 308 for several reasons: availability (here in Italy it is everywhere and also loading components are much easier to find), longer barrel life (i train with my hunting rifles, i often check zero after cleaning it and after disassembling it for maintenace and i get at least 20 animals per year so i shoot more than the average hunter), good terminal performances also on bigger games (i also hunt boars and red deer) at reasonable ranges, low recoil (so i don't need a muzzle brake), not loud so i don't need ear protections when i hunt. It's not the flattest caliber but, if you compare it to calibers considered pretty flat like a 300 WSM or even a 7 mm Rem mag, using high BC bullets, at these distances there is no much difference. At 450 yards with a 10 km/h wind at 90°, a 165 grains accubond from a 308 win will be moved 23.7 cm and a 150 grains accubond from a 7 rem mag will be moved 20 cm. 3 cm for half the barrel life, more recoil, more loudness, heavier rifle, long action, etc for games that will die very quick also with a 308? For me it doesn't make sense. If you go with less common calibers, you can find some with a little more ballistic advantage but still not such a deal breaker at the distances i am talking about and you have the risk to see the caliber fade out in a few years and you could have issues finding ammo and reloading equipment/components. Flattness of a caliber, within common sense, is definitely overhyped with rangefinders and ballistic turrets in my opinion. As far as wind, i will not shoot in high winds past 300 meters anyway. In addition, hunting fellow deer and red deer is prohibited with anything less than a 270 in my district in Italy.
I think that, if you are not going to shoot past 500 yards, 308 is a solid choice, it's very versatile, assuming you use the right bullet, as with any other caliber.

The ideal caliber for me is the 7 SAUM but i will never own one cause it's almost a dead caliber.

I don't like much the idea of a 8x magnification factor. I don't need it at all and makes getting behind the scope much less easy (small eyebox). If NF made a NX5 i would own at least 3. Anyway, which model of NX8 would you pick?

 

[wildcat33]

This one meets your specs:

Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 F2 .1 MRAD MIL-CF2 Riflescope C638

FREE SHIPPING on Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 F2 .1 MRAD MIL-CF2 Riflescope C638

www.eurooptic.com

Me personally, I would choose a 2.5-10 NXS with a simple MIL-R reticle for 500yrd shooting with a 308.

Edit: i didnt mean to post a link to the SFP version. FFP is what you want.

 

[RockAndSage]

OP, given your interests and specifications, you might also consider looking into March scopes. They've got a ton of variety, and are highly regarded in certain communities. This one sounds like it might be close to what you're looking for:

D24V52FIML (MIL, Tactical, Illumi) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

 

[ssimo]

OP, given your interests and specifications, you might also consider looking into March scopes. They've got a ton of variety, and are highly regarded in certain communities. This one sounds like it might be close to what you're looking for:

D24V52FIML (MIL, Tactical, Illumi) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

Thanks for the reply. Since i didn't get many answers here, i did a little bit of research and i ended up looking at march scopes.
I was alsmost spld on it when i saw a terrible review on youtube by a guy called C Does about the 3-24×52. He sounds experienced in reviewing scopes and, from his words, it looks like that scope is junk as far as optical properties. I was lretty shocked because, aside some complaints about small eyebox and touchy parallax, everyone seem to love their march.
Anyway, with such a broad magnification range, i think a SFP like the march 2.5-25x52 would make more sense, using subtensions at 5-10-15 and 20x and still being able to use the scope effectively from 2.5× to 25x thanks to the reticle being the same at all magnifications. What do you think about all this?
Thanks

 

[ssimo]

This one meets your specs:

Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 F2 .1 MRAD MIL-CF2 Riflescope C638

FREE SHIPPING on Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x50 F2 .1 MRAD MIL-CF2 Riflescope C638

www.eurooptic.com

Me personally, I would choose a 2.5-10 NXS with a simple MIL-R reticle for 500yrd shooting with a 308.

Already at 350 yards a roe deer looks very, very small in the scope. This makes it more difficult to see the details of its body and place the shot perfectly. Additionally, if you have more than one roe or boar, with such small trophies, you even risk to shoot the wrong one switching to the scope after evaluating the animals with the spotting scope. I need at least 15x

 

[Macintosh]

Have you used an nx8? Im wondering if the reputation for a finicky eyebox is overblown and maybe irrelevant if you have so much time to set up that you are moving directly from spotter to rifle? It seems otherwise a good option even if you dont need the 8x zoom.

What about khales? The THLR dude seems to fare just fine with his.

 

[SDHNTR]

I’m going to have a March 2.5-25x52 F2 for sale shortly. Contact me if interested.

 

[ssimo]

Have you used an nx8? Im wondering if the reputation for a finicky eyebox is overblown and maybe irrelevant if you have so much time to set up that you are moving directly from spotter to rifle? It seems otherwise a good option even if you dont need the 8x zoom.

What about khales? The THLR dude seems to fare just fine with his.

I already own a khales 2-10×50i and it's amazing inside 250 yards, hust point and shoot, without any worry.

Khales hunting scopes are unfortunately unsuitable for longer ranges, as almost any european hunting scope. Not even one european hunting scope has these 3 things tigehter: parallax adjusment, mil reticle with hasmarks for windage (they mostly have a german IV type reticle) , exposed elevation turret. This is due to the typical way of central europeans to hunt deer, from a stand, inside 200 meters. In Italy we can hunt more freely luckily. European scope manufacturer have tactical models with all these features but the scopes in this category are usually huge or very heavy. Polar t95 (4-16x50 i think) from S&B is the ONLY hunting scope that has all these features but i don't like the weird additional illumination turret, it would probably interfere with nounting the scope with my action. Maybe also a zeiss model has these features but I have heard the mechanics of zeiss scopes are not that good.
Nightforce 3.5-15×50 would have been perfect but they don't offer a MIL reticle, that's crazy to me, they are losing so many customer just for a different reticle. So the march 2.5-25×52 could be my best bet but i really don't understand how all the reviews i have seen are very good but that CDoes youtube guy criticizes optical performances of the ffp march model in almost any category, from clarity to eyebox

 

[ssimo]

I’m going to have a March 2.5-25x52 F2 for sale shortly. Contact me if interested.

That’s interesting. Why are you selling it?

 

[Macintosh]

I have not seen seen one in person, but have heard people say many of the march scopes suffer from similar eyebox issues as the nx8 2.5-20. Ie the 8x zoom has a price. Thats hearsay though.

Regardless, the khales 3-18 34mm scope on their website says its only 33oz—thats just a bit outside your weight range but close enough to mention. I only mentioned it because the guy on the thlr channel has been using their hunting model and seems to do just fine using it exactly like you are proposing.

Why not a 4-16x42 atacr? Its a 34mm tube but it meets all of your other requirements including weight.

 

[ssimo]

I have not seen seen one in person, but have heard people say many of the march scopes suffer from similar eyebox issues as the nx8 2.5-20. Ie the 8x zoom has a price. Thats hearsay though.

Regardless, the khales 3-18 34mm scope on their website says its only 33oz—thats just a bit outside your weight range but close enough to mention. I only mentioned it because the guy on the thlr channel has been using their hunting model and seems to do just fine using it exactly like you are proposing.

Why not a 4-16x42 atacr? Its a 34mm tube but it meets all of your other requirements including weight.

Yes, it seems like what i am looking for just doesn't exist a part from a march 2.5-25x52 SFP. I wonder why leica or khales don't put a freaking mil reticle in every hunting scope they produce. That's absurd. Once i talked about it with the guy in head of leica customer support for Italy and, a part from being extremely rude and arrogant (something i have never experienced with an US gun/scope/action/barrel manufacturer), he just said that holding for wind is useless.

I will check some models with a 34mm tube now but i will probably end up with the march sfp.

I already bought a minox zp5 in the past but, as soon as i unboxed it, i sent it back. That thing is huge and it weights 1070 grams!

 

[Formidilosus]

Hi, i recently got a new job with good salary so of course i suddenly ordered a custom rifle it is a 308, with a Defiance ga hunter action and bartlein #3 contour 22 inch barrel with a manners mcs-t stock. It will be amazing. I just have to choose a scope to put on it.
The rifle will be used for hunting with shots inside 500 yards. The system must be very accurate because i will shoot also small roe deer and the ideal shot placement is more or less a 5 inch circle in those small animals. The rifle will weight between 11 and 11.5 lbs with bipod, sling and the scope (11.5 with a 30 oz scope, 11 with a lighter one). This weight is ideal for me since i am young and fit and i already have a couple lighter rifles for stalking inside 250 yards.

About the scope, i thought:
-weight max 30 oz
-30 mm tube (i just don't need the larger ones keeping shots inside 500 yards)
-50 mm bell
-min magnification between 2 and 4
-max magnification between 12 and 20
-if the max magnification is 15 or lower, i could consider also a SFP cause i would take most shots when i need to use the reticle for windage holds at max power anyway
-exposed elevation turret
-exposed or capped windage turret
-MIL turret/MIL reticle. Here in Italy we only use metric system and it's much easier to work with MILs for me
-i give more importance to reliability and tracking than to image quality (i shot often at dawn so the image must be decent)

The S&B 3-12x42mm Klassik with BDC turret and P3 reticle is the only scope that meets the important parts of your requirements. The 50mm doesn’t change enough for what you state is your use to compromise on so many other aspects.

 

[Mojave]

I live in Germany, and I don't live in the Alps. So my normal hunting is going to be roe deer, wildboar and driven hunts.

But I'll do a few mountain hunts in 2024 and do quite a few stand hunts for stags.

I would not want any kind of military scope for hunting in Europe. Most are in power ranges that do not work for where I live.

I live in the most forested state in Germany, as the Rheinland-Pfalz forest covers most of our state.

The best MOA dial scope is the Swarovski X5.

I would also want FFP and Mils, but alas you are right this isn't a thing.

If your European hunting is similar to mine, I'd do some kind of scope with a 1 power bottom range and 14ish range upper power range. With some kind of dial system. That way you can use it on driven hunts and mountain hunts.

If you don't do driven hunts, maybe a 3-18 Swarovski X5 would work better.

I would not worry about MILS or MOA. You download the application for your Swarovski (Ziess, Schmidt whoever) and start shooting. Then watch the videos youtube from Gunwerks or someone else on how to true the optic to your ammunition.

 

[Mojave]

The S&B 3-12x42mm Klassik with BDC turret and P3 reticle is the only scope that meets the important parts of your requirements. The 50mm doesn’t change enough for what you state is your use to compromise on so many other aspects.

If he is like me in Europe, he can hunt pigs all night long. I would pig the biggest objective available.

 

[ssimo]

The S&B 3-12x42mm Klassik with BDC turret and P3 reticle is the only scope that meets the important parts of your requirements. The 50mm doesn’t change enough for what you state is your use to compromise on so many other aspects.

If i am not mistaken that scope is non illuminated. And why that over the shv 4-14x50 f1 i already have?

 

[ssimo]

Actually you are right my friend, the X5 has all the features i would like, i didn'tlook at it specifically for that huge elevation turret which is making the scope twice as bulky as it could be vertically. But it could be an option. At the same proce of a march 2.5-25x52, why would you pick the swarowsky?
Btw i don'tdo driven hunts and i hunt in different areas, this rifle will be used for more open areas in the hillside of lombardy and pedemont, where shots can be taken quite often at more than 300 m

I live in Germany, and I don't live in the Alps. So my normal hunting is going to be roe deer, wildboar and driven hunts.

But I'll do a few mountain hunts in 2024 and do quite a few stand hunts for stags.

I would not want any kind of military scope for hunting in Europe. Most are in power ranges that do not work for where I live.

I live in the most forested state in Germany, as the Rheinland-Pfalz forest covers most of our state.

The best MOA dial scope is the Swarovski X5.

I would also want FFP and Mils, but alas you are right this isn't a thing.

If your European hunting is similar to mine, I'd do some kind of scope with a 1 power bottom range and 14ish range upper power range. With some kind of dial system. That way you can use it on driven hunts and mountain hunts.

If you don't do driven hunts, maybe a 3-18 Swarovski X5 would work better.

I would not worry about MILS or MOA. You download the application for your Swarovski (Ziess, Schmidt whoever) and start shooting. Then watch the videos youtube from Gunwerks or someone else on how to true the optic to your ammunition.

 

[amassi]

Have you used an nx8? Im wondering if the reputation for a finicky eyebox is overblown and maybe irrelevant if you have so much time to set up that you are moving directly from spotter to rifle? It seems otherwise a good option even if you dont need the 8x zoom.

What about khales? The THLR dude seems to fare just fine with his.

It is absolutely overblown


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ssimo]

If he is like me in Europe, he can hunt pigs all night long. I would pig the biggest objective available.

At the moment pig hunting has been stopped due to the epidemic of PSA (don't know the name in english) but normally yes, i hunt pigs at any hour with a very nice bergara b14 in 308 topped with a 2-10×50i Khales. That setup is a killing machine