School me on "Custom" rifles...

[grfox92]

I'm new to the forum and new to backcountry hunting (long time suburban bowhunter)

I've developed a serious interest in backcountry hunting by following guys like Rinella and Remi Warren, and all the solo hunter videos.

I've learned a ton since joining this forum and have received a ton of info from you guys which is very appreciated.

There are a lot of things that are new to me due to the fact that certain things are just not as important when hunting locally in NY vs hunting in dangerous wilderness situations.

One tho g I have not pinned down or figured out is all the talk of custom rifles.

I'm used to off the shelf Remington 700, lever actions, Remington Pumps, Savage bolt actions, Winchester m70s, seem to be what everyone in the North East is shooting.

What makes a custom Tika for example that much better then an off the shelf m70 featherweight (my current bolt action rifle) I would have previously thought that upgrading the stock trigger, stock and barrel on my M70 would be about as far as you could go. Can anyone give me a Custom Rifles for dummies breakdown?

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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Tikka is a stock rifle just like your m70.

Semi-customs are built off stock rifles, for instance using the action as a donor to have true'd and a premium barrel installed, etc.

Full custom are built ground up from premium components.


Full custom MAY get you 1/4MOA accuracy where as 1MOA is often the expectation of stock rifles, that said many shoot better than that (and some don't). Other things are getting exactly what you want, weight, etc.

Custom is not required to get you out there in the woods esp. <400yd.

 

[6mm Remington]

I took a Winchester Model 70 Classic Sporter and had the action trued and blue-printed. The trigger was fine tuned to exactly 2.5 pounds. A Shilen 1-9 twist stainless match grade barrel 24" long was put on it and it was chambered for the .280 Ackley Improved. I had the classic wood stock pillar and glass bedded for strength and consistency. To me that's a custom rifle but to some it is not. I know I certainly like how it turned out and how well it shoots.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I took a Winchester Model 70 Classic Sporter and had the action trued and blue-printed. The trigger was fine tuned to exactly 2.5 pounds. A Shilen 1-9 twist stainless match grade barrel 24" long was put on it and it was chambered for the .280 Ackley Improved. I had the classic wood stock pillar and glass bedded for strength and consistency. To me that's a custom rifle but to some it is not. I know I certainly like how it turned out and how well it shoots.

Full custom in my definition (feel free to disagree) is building off a premium action just like the premium barrel you installed. IE Stiller, pierce, lone peak, etc... You have a semi-custom (as do I for the record). Similarly I don't define a stock change and trigger job as a semi-custom. The definition category doesn't take anything away from a rifle that shoots that is for damn sure.

 

[AdamW]

Just like custom knives, pro built engines, etc. you're getting craftsmanship, quality, performance, attention to detail, tight tolerances, etc. Will some stock rifles shoot with some custom guns, yes, but not on a grand scale most likely. The attention to detail and quality of parts just isn't there in factory guns. Custom gets you what you want with the ability to cater it to your needs. In the pistol world the parallel would be a Wilson 1911 vs a factory Springfield. They're kind of the same, but not really.

The difference is pretty evident. PS I own zero custom guns.

 

[paleraider]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here and is important when going custom is who the smith is. This will have the greatest impact on the performance of the rifle, not the parts. Reason I say that is you can take the best barrel and action in the world and if someone mangles them your accuracy is kaput. Where as a great smith can true up a turd and make it shoot well. As such not all smiths are created equal, make sure you go with a very reputable one. Also note fit and final finish are important, just because someone has a lathe and a homemade oven doesn't mean they can spin a barrel and cerakote a rifle for diddly.

I have several custom rifles from many well known and lesser known smiths. Currently I think Short Action Customs is doing the best overall work, their attention to detail is amazing and they are true one hole guns, at least the two I have are.

 

[Cahunter805]

As stated there are many opinions and options when building or upgrading a rifle. Your m70 has a great factory trigger that just requires a bit of stoning and a respring that most competent gunsmiths can handle easily. You could also have the rifle bedded. How does it shoot now? You could rebarrel if accuracy isn't up to your standards.
A great m70 gunsmith is Lee christianson out of Wisconsin.

 

[spaniel]

IMHO, for hunting, full custom is rarely necessary. I have numerous semi-custom guns and a single semi-custom on a Stiller action, as well as one full custom. They all shoot as well as I can, 1/4-1/3 MOA with optimized loads. Maybe for target shooting where .1 MOA difference is meaningful it makes a difference.

In my experience, screw a high quality barrel on, bed the action in a quality stock, and optimize loads, and sub-half MOA is the worst I expect.

Can't comment on Remington, but across a family of Savages I've seen no need to have anything trued. My factory Sendero shoots so well I'd rebarrel and semi-custom that gun without blueprinting.

 

[N2TRKYS]

All of my factory rifles(Remington M700, M7 and Winchester M70 push fed) shoot an 1" or less at 100 yards. None of them have been trued. For a hunting rifle, I haven't seen the need for a custom, unless you just want one.

 

[howl]

Most of what passes for custom these days are just small output production rifles. Full custom rifles are made one at a time from blocks and bars of steel. Everything is to your preference and fitted to you. A custom stock is carved from a board to your measurements and preference. Often the small output rifles put together from actions, barrels and stocks made elsewhere have the kind of quality components and attention to detail that make them better rifles.

 

[FURMAN]

These guys pretty much summed it up. For under 400 yds there is no need for a custom rifle. These days there are several ready to go rifles that will shoot under .5 moa for a fair price if you wish to stretch the distance a little.

 

[grfox92]

Great info guys. I guess this pretty much sums up that I will never need a custom rifle, as i have zero interest in shooting animals 400+ yards away.

I will however over time like to upgrade my model 70 in .308. The trigger and switch a quality synthetic stock instead of the wood Monte Carlo stock that's on the gun now.


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[16Bore]

Trigger and stock (McMillan would be my preference) will make it sing.

 

[ATX762]

Manners and McMillan hunting stocks tend to fit most people better than the factory wood stocks, and they are also lighter, but they are also $600. I would take that $600 and put it into ammo. That is what will make that rifle shoot better--your mind/neurological pathways, your eyes, your trigger finger. Putting a 100 rounds a day through the rifle every day for two weeks (along with a lot of dry fire practice) and that rifle will be shooting very, very well.

But drop $600 on gear and shoot a few boxes of ammo a few times a month...that rifle is not going to shoot any better at all.

As everyone has basically said above, a goodly percentage of factory rifles will shoot 3/4 MOA just by bedding/floating them and sorting out the trigger situation AND obviously figuring out what ammo they like.

So, given that a deer's kill zone is 10" or so, how come rifles don't kill deer at 1,000 yards every time a hunter pulls the trigger? In fact, how come rifles often miss deer at 100 yards or even 200 yards?

Because limiting piece of technology in making a shot is generally the hunter.

To give some numbers (admittedly...not scientific, but in my experience). A guy who spends $1500 on a nice bedded scoped factory rifle who then spends $2500 on practice ammo is likely going to be holding 4 MOA offhand and 1.5MOA-2MOA in sitting or kneeling.

Whereas the guy who has put that $4k into his dope-ass custom rifle that I want to jizz my pants over...but then went out and shot maybe 5-10 boxes of ammo before he went hunting...that guy and his beautiful rifle are likely holding 12-14 MOA offhand and maybe 4-6MOA offhand AT BEST. How many guys do you see at the range who miss a 12" gong at 100 yards more times than they hit it?

So...I rant.. it really does cost money to make a rifle shoot well...but once the bedding/trigger/ammo preferences have been sorted, the only way to make the rifle shoot better is to make the shooter better. Unless you were a rifleman in some professional capacity and someone's tax dollars were paying for your ammunition, treat yourself to a case or two of ammo (i.e. 1,000-2,000 res) and spend some serious time getting to know your rifle.

Aside from the fact that we all enjoy nice gear, it is pointless to get one's rifle to shoot sub MOA if one cannot hold even 10 MOA off hand, which is about what most shooters can hold. That basically means that whatever rifle you're shooting, it's an 10 MOA rifle.

Now, you don't need to get to where you're holding 2MOA--as long as you limit your shots. But it's nice to do so. And it's a meaningful thing to do with your life and your time, and shows respect for the animal and for the pursuit itself. The mastery of the skill has real value...both on a philosophical level but also, massively, on a practical level. It is actually by far the most economical way to get your rifle to shoot better.

I had too many beers at lunch, but I think that makes sense. I hope. I am just passing on what I wish folks had told me long ago. You've already got great gear. Treat yourself to a case of ammo and a week at the range.

Okay sorry enough ranting.

 

[Shooter19802003]

The above comments are very well made....more people should take heed.

 

[LIWolverine]

I completely agree with the above from ATX


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