Sawtooth users !

[Kevin Dill]

Sawtooth: The back end is only accessible by crawling, for me. I use it to store the things I probably won't need often. To stand up comfortably any guy approaching 6' or taller will be very near the pole. I think number of occupants is totally an individual thing. Some people are fine with a bit of crowding or crawling over people to get situated. Kids and dogs will pile into any shelter and show their happiness. Size matters less in good weather but marginal size can be miserable when/if you are cooped up for 24-48 hours or more. I've been weathered in that long and longer, and I valued the ability to stand and move around a bit without doing the hokey-pokey. For my uses I would down-vote the Sawtooth as a 3 man rig on a ten day or longer hunt in backcountry that I hunt.

8-Man: More weight and bulk, so not backpack oriented. Big enough for 4 guys with some gear, plus stove and wood pile...but crowded. Three guys are a piece of cake and two will live large in it. Not as wind-worthy as the Sawtooth in my opinion, but then I don't take it up on high treeless mountains or in places where I can't shelter it when pitched. This is my primary moose rig for hunts up to 16 days or more. One thing I like about it is the ability to keep myself and gear away from the hot stove and pipe...greater clearance and safety especially when entering or exiting the shelter. I also highly value the ability to stand upright and move around more on extended hunts. Two or three guys can stand up simultaneously and not be in a face-off while dressing.

Footprint: Both units are pretty sizable. Neither is easy to place in a boulder garden or stand of timber...for sure. I've had to deal with both situations. On my most recent hunt to Alaska I was camped on a mountain bench above treeline and there were so many rocks I couldn't find a smooth place. I ended up leaving a sizable stone and pitching the Sawtooth over it...that's how bad it was. I'm an unlucky camper anyway, and have yet to simply find a smooth spot in the best location to camp. I always seem to end up wishing I had an excavator.

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[ChrisS]

I would be sure to find out how many you will typically have. I bought an 8-man thinking that we would have three most often, but so far there's only been two at the most. The 8-man is too heavy for me pack very far anywhere solo with a stove and even with another guy, it gets heavy to split for not that much more room (it's still a tipi and not a 14 x 16 wall tent). Plus there are tradeoffs in the tipi as far as useable space since the sides have a more shallow slope than a sawtooth. In a perfect world get both and one stove.

 

[204guy]

In a perfect world get both and one stove.

This, Sawtooth for 2, 6 man for 3 and 8 man for 3 or 4 is a good general rule. 3 is possible in the sawtooth but I wouldn't want to. We can do 2 and 2 dogs and stove in the sawtooth quite easily. On thing that rarely gets mentioned is that in single wall shelters you need to stay away from the sidewalls at night when the stove isn't going or there's a good chance you'll end up with a wet bag in the morning from condensation, and even more so with 3 people in there.

 

[matt1glenn]

Thanks guys

 

[dvm_hunter]

Luke what nest are you using in your Sawtooth?? My wife won't sleep in a floorless shelter, so i'm trying to find a simple fix and still be able to buy a Sawtooth.

 

[DenRuyter]

I love my Sawtooth, but I think getting 3 in it with gear and stove would be a tight fit. 3 with me and my 2 kids works perfect, but 3 adults and full hunting gear would be pushing it if everyone is 6'-200lbs or so. I'd bring a tarp for gear if possible if I did want to run it with all 3 people.

I picked up a Seek Outside Lil Bug out BTB for going with more than 2. I haven't used this one past initial setup and air-out, but there is tons of usable room left and it can definitely sleep 4 and gear comfortably. The drawback is you cant stand up in it like the Sawtooth, but the modularity is a nice feature.

 

[matt1glenn]

I think I should get a bigger tipi for more room thanks guys

 

[smcguirt]

I think I should get a bigger tipi for more room thanks guys

Your pm's are full

 

[Shrek]

Really wish Kifaru would just sew a freaking guy loop on the outside of the rear pole to start with to give us consumers the option! Even just give it an option in a drop down box when ordering as in:

$10 for "Moffat Mod"

I tried to talk Aron into it two years ago and got nowhere . I think yours was modified by Becca's Custom Shop but I need to get mine modified somewhere. Has anyone had Rainy Pass do this mod for them ? I wonder if they're familiar with what I want ?

 

[Shrek]

I'm not sure if I want to risk butchering my Sawtooth and by the time I chased down the proper thread and loop material it would cheaper to have a pro do it and no I didn't get the idea from you but I did get it from SO's BCS which is probably where you saw it and thought that would work great on a Sawtooth.

 

[dvm_hunter]

The Nest we are using is the Net 2 tent from Bearpaw designs.

Full side zipper and sloped.

http://www.bearpawwd.com/net_tents/walled_net_tent.php

We perfer nets of bivies as we can sit up in them and still have a full bathtub floor and be out of the bugs while sleeping while still leaving 2/3s of our shelter open and floorless for hanging out.

As you can see in the last pic we have both our bags/pads inside the nest with ample space for a 3rd pad/bag to the left of it. 3 people in a sawtooth with the rear pole out of there is easy money for us anyways. And I would have no problem putting myself and 2 of my hunting buddy's in there either with a stove, but everyone's needs are different. I have also slept in 2 person nests that I use with my wife with my hunting partners too as its 30 sq ft of space in there so its not like we are spooning! To each their own though. Just my experience after using it like this some. Not sure how many folks actually have used their sawtooth in such a manner and realize how much space it opens up.

Really wish Kifaru would just sew a freaking guy loop on the outside of the rear pole to start with to give us consumers the option! Even just give it an option in a drop down box when ordering as in:

$10 for "Moffat Mod"

Yeah, that's perfect. I may have to buy two nests: one for me and my wife and one for my two kids. For some reason the wife isn't okay with sleeping in a floorless shelter with bugs and snakes?!? That modification seems like money as far as opening the interior up for more space. For hunting it would be me and another guy and possibly my 8 year old son plus or minus a stove.

Thanks again!

 

[COlineman78]

Agree, I will also want the Moffat Mod when/if I eventually get a Sawtooth. Still not sold on floorless, but going to try out with a Moutainsmith LT early next year. My sewing will definitely not be purdy. I've been putting off repairing a cut in the sleeve of a Kuiu merino that I am sure will go poorly.

 

[Kevin Dill]

The answer s pretty simple. Sew a stout webbing loop on the exterior rear pole area. Buy or make an extra section for the existing inside rear pole. Use 3 pole sections to make the outside pole. Fashion guy outs as you prefer. This gives you two options. If weight is an issue just take no rear pole and make one in camp, or use a trekking pole. If you doubt you can sew just spend 30 minutes on Youtube or hit up Ralph on the Kifaru forums. I could add that web loop in less than 30 minutes of stitching and stronger than any machine. Seal the deal with good silicone.

 

[rbljack]

I totally agree. Having the loop option seems like such a simple add for them to do also. Maybe there is a concern with a leak developing there or something? But then again, they already have it set up for a pole, so adding the loop should be a no brainer. KIFARU....are you listening? From what I have seen from Kifaru so far, they are very customer service oriented, so I wanted to chime in and show that this request for a loop isn't just coming from one person!! I want the loop too! I hope to be ordering a sawtooth before next years hunting season (I already got the stove), so you can bet I will be another requester asking for the loop when I call them. May not do any good, but its worth a shot.

 

[dvm_hunter]

Kevin,

Kifaru already supplies the rear pole.....so buying or making one isn't needed. Though I never bring it and use a simple trekking pole if wanting to have a rear pole.

Just seems silly Kifaru will sew guy loops all over the thing to anchor it down but won't give the end user the option of not using a rear pole by guying out that area externally if one desires which frees up more useable space inside the shelter.

What type of thread did y'all use to sew the loop on, Luke?? It seems like a simple addition if you just use a simple tack pattern and some seam sealer after the fact. My only question is was it sewn to an already "bulked" area, meaning is there some sort of backing that sandwiches the tarp shell or ??

 

[Kevin Dill]

I haven't added a loop to mine yet, as I'm still not too concerned about having one. If I was doing it, I would go to Walmart and buy black upholstery thread and look for some stout crewels (needles) with eyelets just large enough for the upholstery thread. Shorter needles are stronger by the way. Use a 24-30" piece of thread. Loop could be made of most any good webbing 3/4" or less in width. Fashion the loop and stitch around the perimeter area to be sewn using a running stitch. Figure to use a small pair of needle nose pliers to run the needle and pull it through. Visible stitch length would be 3/16". Stitch the entire perimeter and then perhaps an 'x' across the corners. End up where you started and tie off, then seal with silicone in inside and out. The strongest loop would probably be a 3/4" x 3" piece of webbing sewn to create an inchworm (my term) loop. Basically you'd be sewing down both ends and leaving a hump in the center to form a loop. Sew each end down a full inch (x2) and that leaves an inch to create the loop.

Luke and others: I do have to wonder if this would be a potential failure point in heavy winds. You know how gusts and such just beat the daylights out of a shelter. Personally I wouldn't use the external tie-out in heavy winds. This is obviously a high-stress area and I would not want a stitched loop to fail in a 40 mph blow. In winds I'm sure my pole would be inside in the conventional placement. Also I think going with a taller pole would help distribute the stress on things better, considering the guy-out would be pulling both upward and rearward.

Interested in others thoughts....

 

[BroodBuster]

Which is why everyone needs a family of tents

My paratarp already has that loop so I'll be using the "Moffat mod" next time I set it up. Excellent idea!

 

[Kevin Dill]

Luke, I'm automatically deferring to you and your amount of experience in the Sawtooth. I think if it works for you, it works. The exterior tie/pole option is a good one and I'm going to try it this next summer. I'll admit up front that I'm the kind of guy who tends toward failsafe engineering/planning, and I try to foresee issues. It's a lot easier to solve them in the yard than in the backcountry. Back in late August I went through the worst and wildest wind and rainstorm I've ever experienced in a half-century of camping....and it lasted 4 days. I had a 25 pound rock on top of every single stake and that included the guy-outs. The main center pole was deflecting as much as 12-18" laterally in heavy gusts and I felt it was a matter of time before it or something else failed. The little 2-piece rear pole did its job, even if not very inspiring. The darn thing was definitely in the way when needing to access that area, but wasn't a huge issue since I was alone. I know it would be even less convenient for 2 or more people. The external system solves that problem, and my only concern is how it tolerates high winds. Regardless, I think this is a great gear mod and very easy to accomplish on a diy basis.

 

[COlineman78]

Yeah, I suspect this is why Kifaru hasn't provided the option. Everything I have seen from them is bombproof so that they can provide a great warranty and giving guys an option to run in such a way that it wouldn't stand up to everything you could throw at it goes against that. Remember, while we understand that there is some guy out there that will come crawling back to Kifaru expecting them to warranty it when they set it up this way in 60+ mph winds. I have seen some crazy things happen in the mountains out of nowhere, such as microbursts and I haven't witnessed it myself, but know cold air funnels (mountain tornadoes) are a possibility. Lake Granby is known for microbursts and wind storms out of nowhere (been out on 4 foot waves in my boat) and it's funny to see the parade of awnings to the dumpster afterward twisted and turned every which way. Now I would consider this bad luck and wouldn't expect Kifaru to warranty anything, but from what I've heard they would anyways.

 

[luke moffat]

Probably true COlineman.....I will crawl into my hole now and quit sharing suggestions especially ones that can risk ones safety.