San Juans, Flat Tops, Sangres = Worthless

[ColoradoV]

Seems the CPW wants to screw archery hunters with a giant change in entire mountain ranges. If you archery hunt might want to look at about page 80 from the document below..

http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2019/January/Item.10-Final-Chapter.W-2.pdf


If the commission gets its way and shoves this change down the throats of hunters it will basically make archery hunting in these ranges worthless. As from what I have seen once guys start banging away across basins at 1000+ yds above timberline it does not take long and archery hunting the same bucks is obsolete.

Sad to see the commission trying to push a change like this through...

 

[jolemons]

I'm not understanding the change. It appears like opening day for early rifle in those units will be 8/31, whereas it was 9/1 in 2018. Can you explain?

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[robby denning]

I agree with your point but I think those changes have been out a few years?


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[ahlgringo]

Run into a couple of those lucky guys every year in the Sangres when I am chasing Elk during bow season.


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[ColoradoV]

Details as always in the commission documents is in the red lines = pay close attention boys not many folks have caught it yet... The date roll back for most of the units/hunts/species the red line is just a change from 2018 to 2019 as planned but there are a few nuggets in there for sheep and the biggest change is if you like to archery hunt deer above timberline.

Page 80 (fun reading I know) tells how archery deer will now open the same day as high country rifle deer. There used to be 1 week archery guys got before shells started ripping across basins. Soon after shots from what I have seen mule deer migrate this will make archery and muzzy much more challenging to impossible in many many of the state's high country mule deer units...

This change will make many units worthless to archery guys. Or if you have found then patterned a buck there is a very good chance on the opener there will be a rifle hunter shooting over archery guys to kill it. I have seen how these high country rifle hunts can literally clear out the top end bucks in in a block of units over just a couple years. Also it is a royal middle finger from the cpw to archery/muzzy hunters.

Or yea this will make archery hunting big deer basically worthless in the sangre's, san juan's, and flat tops for all but the few with a belted mag strapped to their pack..

Last year - archery started on august 25 then a week later the rifle guys started. This year they both start the same day = good for a few high point rifle hunters bad for all archery and muzzy hunters in these mountain ranges.

 

[tdhanses]

Details as always in the commission documents is in the red lines = pay close attention boys not many folks have caught it yet... The date roll back for most of the units/hunts/species the red line is just a change from 2018 to 2019 as planned but there are a few nuggets in there for sheep and the biggest change is if you like to archery hunt deer above timberline.

Page 80 (fun reading I know) tells how archery deer will now open the same day as high country rifle deer. There used to be 1 week archery guys got before shells started ripping across basins. Soon after shots from what I have seen mule deer migrate this will make archery and muzzy much more challenging to impossible in many many of the state's high country mule deer units...

This change will make many units worthless to archery guys. Or if you have found then patterned a buck there is a very good chance on the opener there will be a rifle hunter shooting over archery guys to kill it. I have seen how these high country rifle hunts can literally clear out the top end bucks in in a block of units over just a couple years. Also it is a royal middle finger from the cpw to archery/muzzy hunters.

Or yea this will make archery hunting big deer basically worthless in the sangre's, san juan's, and flat tops for all but the few with a belted mag strapped to their pack..

Last year - archery started on august 25 then a week later the rifle guys started. This year they both start the same day = good for a few high point rifle hunters bad for all archery and muzzy hunters in these mountain ranges.

The starting date for archery rotates, this just happens to be a year it’s opens a week later. This isn’t a change just standard for how they do the archery seasons in the state unless I missed something and there is a new season for archery.

But if this is your concern might have to hunt a unit that doesn’t have these early rifle hunts for one year as in 2020 we should see archery open earlier again, unless they make big changes for the next 5 year season structure that starts in 2020. Same goes for muzzleloader season this year, it’s a entire week later this year due to how they roll it, next year it’ll move back, this rotation of opening days happens every year but you’ll see the biggest change from year 1 and 5. The red lines are only updating the 2018 info to the 2019, no changes that we didn’t already know about in season opening dates that wasn’t provided 5 years ago in the current 5 year plan that ends with 2019.

 

[ckleeves]

Ya this is bad news. There is no reason for the high country rifle hunts in the first place. Especially with the tag numbers they are cranking out now. If the idea is to kill every mature buck that summers above timberline they are certainly on the right track. If they start the same day I’m not sure what I’ll start doing for deer here. It pretty much would make scouting all summer for a giant pointless when he gets slaughtered from 600 yards opening day.




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[tdhanses]

Ya this is bad news. There is no reason for the high country rifle hunts in the first place. Especially with the tag numbers they are cranking out now. If the idea is to kill every mature buck that summers above timberline they are certainly on the right track. If they start the same day I’m not sure what I’ll start doing for deer here. It pretty much would make scouting all summer for a giant pointless when he gets slaughtered from 600 yards opening day.

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What was their reasoning for these hunts?

 

[ckleeves]

What was their reasoning for these hunts?

Some have been around for quite a few years, others are new within the last few years. They never really give a reason for a new hunt, IMO they are simply to have more high demand/high point deer codes options.

They are getting to be somewhat of a joke, there are of course some big bucks that slip thru the cracks that become true giants and grow old and some guys will scout, find and harvest one but I would say by and large most of the high country buck tags get punched on young up-and-comers in the 155” range.

The safety aspect is another huge issue. While archery deer hunting I frequently am within archery range for hours waiting for deer to stand up for a shot. I guess just stand up and start running when you see guys setting up across the basin with rifles to start waging war on their intended target 20 yards from you?

Colorado seems like they are trying to really put the hurt on animals when they are most vulnerable. High country August/sept rifle deer hunts, September elk hunting with rifles (61-76 early rifle hunts).

Hopefully we can get a spring calf season here soon and really exterminate them for good!


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[tdhanses]

I would hope the guys that do these early rifle hunts wouldn’t just shoot a deer out from under an archery hunter that is putting the stalk on or close to a deer knowingly. There is always one db that would but I’d like to think most are respectful of others no matter the weapon used. I don’t think I’d let it stop me but yeah I can see how it could make for a very difficult hunt.

 

[ahlgringo]

I would hope the guys that do these early rifle hunts wouldn’t just shoot a deer out from under an archery hunter that is putting the stalk on or close to a deer knowingly. There is always one db that would but I’d like to think most are respectful of others no matter the weapon used. I don’t think I’d let it stop me but yeah I can see how it could make for a very difficult hunt.

Ha, well yeah- we can all hope. Has not been my experience though

 

[ckleeves]

I would hope the guys that do these early rifle hunts wouldn’t just shoot a deer out from under an archery hunter that is putting the stalk on or close to a deer knowingly. There is always one db that would but I’d like to think most are respectful of others no matter the weapon used. I don’t think I’d let it stop me but yeah I can see how it could make for a very difficult hunt.

I don’t think most guys would do it knowingly but it’s pretty hard to see a archery hunter that’s trying to hide. I have lost my buddies through a spotter many times when they are on a stalk and I’m trying to find them. When a guy glasses up a buck I think the last thing going through his mind is to check the surrounding area for archery hunters laying above a deer.


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[Ridge Reaper]

I drew one of the early rifle tags last year. From my perspective, it was an extremely crowded hunt, where archers had a two week head start and muzzy hunters got to hunt the same opener. I had the advantage of a rifle, but it also took me eight years to draw the tag for the opportunity to hunt along side a bunch of zero point tag holders. The effect was no big deer up high by the time my hunt started. I got lucky and killed a big buck in the timber - but he was close enough, I coulda killed him with a muzzy.

 

[robby denning]

I drew one of the early rifle tags last year. From my perspective, it was an extremely crowded hunt, where archers had a two week head start and muzzy hunters got to hunt the same opener. I had the advantage of a rifle, but it also took me eight years to draw the tag for the opportunity to hunt along side a bunch of zero point tag holders. The effect was no big deer up high by the time my hunt started. I got lucky and killed a big buck in the timber - but he was close enough, I coulda killed him with a muzzy.

Sorry about your hunt, but all that circus is Colorado’s fault, and the heart of this thread. Too many tags overlapping

 

[tdhanses]

Sorry about your hunt, but all that circus is Colorado’s fault, and the heart of this thread. Too many tags overlapping

It would be nice if CO was more like MT, draw the species tag and hunt the weapon seasons of your choice but also have weapon and area specific limited tags.

 

[Ridge Reaper]

I’m not complaining, far from it. What I should have said was, I’m OK with guys who wait 8-14 years having an advantage beyond just using a rifle (better dates).

The area I hunted this year got absolutely pounded by archery hunters and the deer were pushed low from constant harrassment. I should have still killed a quality buck with my muzzy, but I waited too long to make my move and he got buggered by another hunter. Even with the pressure, it was a quality experience.

 

[ColoradoV]

I am beginning to think it is actually humorous when folks think there will be no one in "their" high county basin.

Or ridge to get the hunt you "needed" with no other around and un pushed game with a rifle that shoots 1200 yds - with such high sucess rates - the tag would have to be so limited it would take a nr 20 - 30 points for you to draw. While eliminating every archery/muzzy tag in these units or should archery start after rifle to give the poor rifle hunters more of a advantage.. Kinda short sited I think..

In any high country hunt there is pressure and this pressure is amplified due to the way deer act and if bumped how they many times leave the area the spent the summer. All the time once shot at w a rifle. Most I have seen once the rifles start pounding away move sides of the divide and even leave the unit with rifle hunters totally. Bow hunters might put some pressure on but seldom chase deer out of unit blocks. Bow hunters also do not blow out entire basins when they shoot - a rifle hunter does.

Also the high success rate on many of these hunts speaks for its self. Many guys think the rifle hunt is easy - or dont put the time they need into scouting - then complain a 200" buck did not jump in the back of their truck. You guys are right many rifle hunters end up shooting a 150-170 dink then go home complaining that it must be the unit as to why they could not kill a giant above timberline with a rifle. Not the fact they put in 1-2 days of scouting but looked at maps on google earth lol..

I also agree on the issue of safety. Maybe there is a single rifle hunter somewhere out there - that would not shoot over around or in the area of a archer but these guys are very few and far between. From what I have seen first hand the archery guy is most likely going to be ducking bullets. I have never seen a rifle hunter pass on a buck if there is a archer on the buck just does not happen in the real world.

CPW should see the mistake they made and move the seasons back as to never have them opening the same day as archery just too many problems. Status quo is working and should be maintained. I sat in a meeting with the cpw and they specifically said rifle will never open the same day as archery. I think this was a mistake should be viewed as such and while it make take some pressure the commissioners should move the rifle seasons back a week at the next commissioners meeting.

 

[5MilesBack]

I have given input to DOW for a few years now to start archery deer the 15th of Aug every year, and make archery elk Sep 1-30 every year. I remember when these "above timberline" deer hunts started later in Sep like the 8th, but IMO they have too many gun hunts during archery season. Not sure if they still do them, but they also used to have a "cow only" rifle season during archery as well in some units. That was a fiasco when you have archery hunters carrying and using cow elk decoys. I haven't used a decoy since.

 

[197]

I agree that it is a bad idea to have them both open on the same day, give either the archers a week head start or limit the rifle hunters a bit more in number of tags and give them a head start. It sounds like the archers are upset that the rifle hunters blow out the deer out of a basin and the rifle hunters are a bit upset that there are so many archers hunting the same bucks they are hunting. I don't think there is an easy answer except for having archery close during rifle season and give the archers the head start? Also, muzzleloader and rifle conflicts occur as well in some units where they moved the rifle season back to the 2nd week of September. Maybe the solution is to not allow rifles, but allow scoped muzzleloaders? That would close the distance down significantly where you won't have 1000 yard shots.

There are only three units with overlapping starting dates on 8/31 from what I can see. They are the following:

12,24,25,26,231

74

82,86,861

 

[sndmn11]

The Flat Tops Wilderness is roughly 235,000 acres with 10 rifle tags, that doesn't seem to be a congesting amount of hunters. Does anyone know the amount of above timberline area in unit 74, and in units 82,86,861?