Safety harness

[StrutNut]

Suspension Trauma is one of the reasons I am always connected so that if I fall, I will swing toward the climbing sticks, not away from them. I do think the Live Wire would work very well for those using rock climbing harnesses. I have to say Larry, try the newer strap style harnesses like the Tree Spider or the one from Muddy. No spaghetti mess and more versatile and comfortable that the vests style. Not as hot in warm weather and easily fits under your jacket for frigid temps. I really like it for tree stand hanging before the season starts when it is very warm out.

 

[larryschwartz]

Well, there are a number of reasons why a full body harness is safer in the treestand scenario than an alpine climbing belt. It really is up to you to decide which you prefer.

1) With a full body harness the shock/impact when you stop at the end of the fall is distributed across your thighs, hips, and torso while with an alpine style climbing harness it all gets absorbed by your upper thighs and lower back. Back injuries have occured when alpine climbers have fallen backwards (with their back facing the ground) and all the force essentially is driven up through their lower back towards their navel. That does not happen with a full body harness.

2) The full body harness has an S-loop stitched into the strap and the stitches break at the end of the drop which absorbs some of the energy, making that sudden stop less of a shock.

3) The alpine harness puts your pivot point (carabiner) at or above your navel which should make your bottom half heavier than your upper half, and therefore you stay feet down and head up. If you are wearning a lot of gear on your torso while in the stand this may not be true.

4) Self-rescue can be done with either harness, a full body harness or an alpine climbing belt. As long as you can turn yourself so you are facign the tree then you can get back onto the ladder, attach to your rescue line and have it lower you down or use descenders or prusik knots with loops attached to them for use as steps (as you described) to come down a fixed rope. There are many techniques and they all work with both types of harnesses.

5) You can suffer from suspension trauma in an alpine climbing harness too, if you don't relieve the pressure on the arteries in your thighs it will still occur. It can happen with a full body harness too. You need to self rescue regardless of what you are wearing.

The major difference between the two systems is that the full body harness reduces that terminal shock more and it distributes your body weight across more webbing to make it easier on you than just a harness around your waist.

Check out this website for some more information on what the TMA recommends, it is from a hunter safety website...http://www2.huntercourse.com/princeedwardisland/study?chapter=9&page=3

 

[realunlucky]

Larry, for background, I have never used a tree stand, but have a small amount of mountaineering and rock climbing experience. If/when I use a treestand, I will likely not have cell reception or a rapid emergency response time even if I have cell service.

Also, I have been to a class, where a doctor from the midwest talked about the people he had seen or heard die in his state due to suspension trauma (without any other injuries) from hanging right side up in a full body treestand safety harness and waiting for help. On the other hand, I have seen people fall while rock climbing and they fall facing the wall where they can use their arms and legs to avoid trauma against the wall, and they fall or pop up right immediately...and don't suffer suspension trauma if they are conscious because they can push away from the wall and sit back in their harness, rather than hanging from the top of their back with all of the force on their thigh straps.

So, I understand how the full body harness systems with the controlled descent emergency attachment/release would be the safest way to go for using any treestand.

But I don't understand how I would be safer in a full body/vest type harness than a climbing harness, if I don't have a controlled descent system attached to my harness? With some safety rope foot loops and lines around the tree available separate from the tree stand, and my whole stand fell off the tree, it would seem that I would better be able to utilize these to lower myself down safely in my climbing harness? If I am wrong, why am I wrong to think this? I might want to get a stand system someday, and already have an Alpine bod climbing harness, but I would not use this, if it would not allow me to self rescue.

Mike if you turn upside in the fall you might not be able to right yourself. I highly doubt you could cling to the tree in a fall regardless of harness type

 

[Mike7]

Thanks Larry. That makes sense. Realunlucky, as far as falling upside down, it doesn't seem to be an issue for me...the big ole butt and legs pop me right back upright unless my feet are firmly placed on a rock wall and I'm leaning/pushing downward with my legs. With a heavier climbing pack/gear on the upper body though as Larry mentions, that might be a different story.

 

[LostArra]

Maybe it's because I don't use a climbing treestand but I can't see a scenario where terminal shock is an issue.
With my lifeline setup and hang-on stand I can't fall more than a foot or so and with my rock climbing harness I just climb back on the stand or on to my steps.

Because there are so many different treestand setups I'll never argue what harness system is best.
I know what works for me and a full body harness with a strap coming up behind my head is not the best for my shooting or self rescue.
Just wearing a safety harness of some sort that allows you to get yourself safely to the ground after a fall is the important thing especially if you use a climbing stand.
(the safety of climbing stands is an issue left for another thread topic)