S2H Winter Rifle Course Observations/lessons

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus, I haven't read through the whole thread so apologies if you already talked about this.

I saw where the MRC rifle failed and was cleaned/repaired and then worked. Since this is advertised as completely field ready out of the box, is this a failure to meet that goal? Is MRC going to do something differently going forward?

No, that’s not a failure. People won’t accept a rifle that is bone dry out of the box- they’re going to have to be lubed. Lube failing in extreme temps isn’t a rifle thing- it will happen to all.

 

[Justin Crossley]

No, that’s not a failure. People won’t accept a rifle that is bone dry out of the box- they’re going to have to be lubed. Lube failing in extreme temps isn’t a rifle thing- it will happen to all.

Makes sense. Do you know if they will switch the lube product they are using to one that works better in extremely cold weather?

I do understand that less than 1% of hunters will actually be hunting in conditions this would even become an issue.

 

[Formidilosus]

Makes sense.

Also, I didn’t put it down as it didn’t occur to me really (I was highlighting anything that happened to the MRC) but everyone degreased their bolts the second day, there were a couple that had light strikes- all due lube on the firing pin.

Do you know if they will switch the lube product they are using to one that works better in extremely cold weather?

I do understand that less than 1% of hunters will actually be hunting in conditions this would even become an issue.

I’m going to talk with them about it when I go to MRC. They can switch to one that is better for cold weather, but in truly cold weather none of the common ones work- you have to go without lube, or use lubes that aren’t great in normal temps.
The rifles are coming with cards or a paper that has QR codes that will take you to an explanation of each item- one of them will be about setup for extremely low temperatures.

 

[HighUintas]

Also, I didn’t put it down as it didn’t occur to me really (I was highlighting anything that happened to the MRC) but everyone degreased their bolts the second day, there were a couple that had light strikes- all due lube on the firing pin.






I’m going to talk with them about it when I go to MRC. They can switch to one that is better for cold weather, but in truly cold weather none of the common ones work- you have to go without lube, or use lubes that aren’t great in normal temps.
The rifles are coming with cards or a paper that has QR codes that will take you to an explanation of each item- one of them will be about setup for extremely low temperatures.

Have you or anyone else ever tried dry graphite for lube, such as imperial that is used for case necks/bullet seating?

Of course it does nothing for corrosion prevention but may slick up surfaces inside the bolt. Maybe it's not needed, but just a thought I had.

 

[DangerRanger]

Would it be worth it to get my bolt/bolt parts DLC coated to reduce the need for lube or is that spending a lot of time fighting an unneeded fight

 

[Formidilosus]

Have you or anyone else ever tried dry graphite for lube, such as imperial that is used for case necks/bullet seating?

Graphite yes. Not imperial.

Of course it does nothing for corrosion prevention but may slick up surfaces inside the bolt. Maybe it's not needed, but just a thought I had.

For most use/conditions it’s not needed.

 

[Formidilosus]

Would it be worth it to get my bolt/bolt parts DLC coated to reduce the need for lube or is that spending a lot of time fighting an unneeded fight

Melonite, etc. is better. But, it’s really not needed.

 

[T_Widdy]

I’m going to talk with them about it when I go to MRC. They can switch to one that is better for cold weather, but in truly cold weather none of the common ones work- you have to go without lube, or use lubes that aren’t great in normal temps.
The rifles are coming with cards or a paper that has QR codes that will take you to an explanation of each item- one of them will be about setup for extremely low temperatures.

Relating to cold weather and lube, Did you run the mk12 at the winter course? Does it still have grease and if so does it ever not cycle or do you change lube in below zero conditions?

 

[Formidilosus]

Relating to cold weather and lube, Did you run the mk12 at the winter course? Does it still have grease and if so does it ever not cycle or do you change lube in below zero conditions?

I did, I purposely left it greased with no adjustment from summer use- it did not cycle at all-15° F.






I wiped off the grease, and applied 0w30 motor oil- it worked fine after that.

 

[Pwb199]

How does the Duckworth Powder hoody compare to the Atlantic Rancher Ranger in terms of warmth and dry time?

 

[rileybassman]

Also, I didn’t put it down as it didn’t occur to me really (I was highlighting anything that happened to the MRC) but everyone degreased their bolts the second day, there were a couple that had light strikes- all due lube on the firing pin.






I’m going to talk with them about it when I go to MRC. They can switch to one that is better for cold weather, but in truly cold weather none of the common ones work- you have to go without lube, or use lubes that aren’t great in normal temps.
The rifles are coming with cards or a paper that has QR codes that will take you to an explanation of each item- one of them will be about setup for extremely low temperatures.

I'm curious what lubes you would recommend... obviously there's tons out there and I just was curious if you had a go to. I've always used G96 as its supposedly rated to like -75 and I haven't seen any issues, but I haven't tested in conditions as extreme as this course.

 

[Ajsomp]

How does the Duckworth Powder hoody compare to the Atlantic Rancher Ranger in terms of warmth and dry time?

I’ve never got in fully submerged in either. But I own and used both this past winter. The duckworth powder is used every day for me since it started getting cold. It’s just comfortable, a bit oversized, and great for just about everything. I wear it by itself or as a midlayer when super cold and out doing normal life stuff. My wife tries to steal it constantly.

It is not nearly as warm or heavy as the Atlantic rancher. That thing is heavy. And thick by comparison. I have rucked more in the Atlantic rancher - and even tested how it would do if I didn’t get a soft shell or rain jacket over it in the snow - and while it got damp I never got cold even down to roughly 20 degrees. My gripe is that I have a long torso and it tends to ride up a little or expose my lower back when bending over. That’s more on me than the sweater - I usually have to find longer versions of items to accommodate.

 

[Pwb199]

I’ve never got in fully submerged in either. But I own and used both this past winter. The duckworth powder is used every day for me since it started getting cold. It’s just comfortable, a bit oversized, and great for just about everything. I wear it by itself or as a midlayer when super cold and out doing normal life stuff. My wife tries to steal it constantly.

It is not nearly as warm or heavy as the Atlantic rancher. That thing is heavy. And thick by comparison. I have rucked more in the Atlantic rancher - and even tested how it would do if I didn’t get a soft shell or rain jacket over it in the snow - and while it got damp I never got cold even down to roughly 20 degrees. My gripe is that I have a long torso and it tends to ride up a little or expose my lower back when bending over. That’s more on me than the sweater - I usually have to find longer versions of items to accommodate.

Thank you for taking the time to write this - I really appreciate it

 

[Formidilosus]

My gripe is that I have a long torso and it tends to ride up a little or expose my lower back when bending over. That’s more on me than the sweater - I usually have to find longer versions of items to accommodate.

Wash it, and hang it to dry- it stretches quite a bit.

 

[jonpall]

I’ve never got in fully submerged in either. But I own and used both this past winter. The duckworth powder is used every day for me since it started getting cold. It’s just comfortable, a bit oversized, and great for just about everything. I wear it by itself or as a midlayer when super cold and out doing normal life stuff. My wife tries to steal it constantly.

It is not nearly as warm or heavy as the Atlantic rancher. That thing is heavy. And thick by comparison. I have rucked more in the Atlantic rancher - and even tested how it would do if I didn’t get a soft shell or rain jacket over it in the snow - and while it got damp I never got cold even down to roughly 20 degrees. My gripe is that I have a long torso and it tends to ride up a little or expose my lower back when bending over. That’s more on me than the sweater - I usually have to find longer versions of items to accommodate.

Thanks for this. How does the fit of the two compare? I've been debating getting one or the other. Seem like the duckworth might be a little tougher?

 

[sbaker0029]

@Formidilosus I have a question regarding sleep system and the rewarming drill.

Have you or your group ever performed the drill using a down bag/quilt and synthetic quilt combo?

Like a 40° synthetic quilt over a 20-25° down quilt/bag. I've wondered how this combo would fair in a rewarming drill.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus I have a question regarding sleep system and the rewarming drill.

Have you or your group ever performed the drill using a down bag/quilt and synthetic quilt combo?

Like a 40° synthetic quilt over a 20-25° down quilt/bag. I've wondered how this combo would fair in a rewarming drill.

I have not seen that done.