S2H winter class 2026 observations and lessons learned

[HuntHarder]

Thank you for taking the time away from breaking optics to reply. lol.
I just picked up a new Rem 700 based rifle that was worked over heavily. It is for sure a shooter but I have no idea how reliabe it is gonna be. I generally dislike 700 pattern rifles but was convinced to try this one.
*Heavy sigh*
-Doc

This may sound crazy.... Remington 700's and clones have been killing shit in all kinds of weather and scenarios for decades. Don't treat your rifle like shit in extreme conditions, and you will likely be ok. If you are truly bothered by it, I would sell it immediately and buy one that you have full confidence in. If you don't, you will always be worrying about it.

 

[benconfused]

Do we know when the new jacket will be released and the possible price point?

 

[Pilsner]

For personal and professional reasons, I will never sell this rifle. However, if I am planning a late winter hunt somewhere further North than I live it is a simple matter to snag a Tikka action and toss together a rifle. Sadly, I am not yet in the place in life where a last-minute hunt in Canada or Alaska is a thing. * heavy sigh* Yet.
As stated above, I generally hate 700 pattern rifles but this one is printing legit sub-0.25 MOA 5 shot groups on the regular and turned in one 0.95" group at 985 yards using a stump and a sand bag for a rest. One does not lightly turn loose of a shooter like that! It also doesn't mean that I should rely on it for the one or three hunts I might do in those conditions. I also have a variety of rifle sleeves and other means to keep one clean and dry outdoors.
My wife would argue with me, "Why am I checking at our PO box for yet another Vortex package?! Why do you keep breaking expensive things?!", but I just use my gear - I don't baby it or abuse it. Not sure how that equates or doesn't to treating it like shit, not that you were saying that I did. Your comments about having confidence in a product that you rely on is spot on.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[Pilsner]

Half in jest.

I've jumped in a couple glacier fed lakes for fun but that was on a hot day. I fell through some rotten ice on a river during spring once. In that case I wasn't smart enough to not go on the ice, but I was smart enough to do it in a spot falling through wasn't life threatening.

I'd probably buck up and let myself get peer-pressured into the fun. I do see the value in learning how your body will react to that stressor. Probably just once though, beyond that I'd be a fan of learning from others' experiences.

You can learn a lot about how your body reacts to cold immersion - and how to mitigate your body's panic reaction so that you can think clearly and in a useful manner immediately afterwards - by just doing ice/uber-cold-water plunges. *Insert Joe Rogan/Cam Hanes joke here*
We own a hot tub, sauna, and ice tank here on our mountain and my much-tougher-than-i wife does them in rotation for fun. I do them, reluctantly, for health and wellness reasons. She enjoys the pain, I do not. Also, I am a pansy who got very soft once I hit 40+ years old.

 

[Sandstrom]

If I’m just moving through the woods and everything else is equal, the handiness of the Rokstock Lite in .223 is hard to beat. It feels awesome. I also really liked shooting the full wood Rokstock. I’m still torn on what I want long term on my .223. Wood Lite or standard wood. The one disadvantage I see with the lite just is what it is, a tradeoff... You have to be very cautious of how short/thin that forearm is. Even on my pack, jammed pretty far forward, I found I'd inadvertently be getting barrel contact every once in awhile. Something you would have to be aware of if using it.

I hear what you are saying! What about a standard rockstock forearm and a rockstock lite butstock?

 

[RockAndSage]

Because people don’t actually shoot. Those that do, almost never shoot off a range- even the competitions that people do are relatively sterile. Those that do shoot almost never have comparative experience between platform. Seeing 5-20 different platforms used side by side and subjected to real “weather” and conditions, with enough rounds to gather something approaching “data” is not a thing. When this people who do shoot, shoot, cleaning between days is not only ok, it’s expected. Malfunctions happen, but intentional blindness means people don’t notice. Humans don’t reflect by and large. Everyone says “customs” are better, so customs must be better- so they ignore or choose to not see the issues.
People will say with one breath that it’s all BS and that they have never had issues, and then in the very next day they they have had multiple triggers go down- but it’s ok because they just needed cleaned. People say “I use my gear really, really hard”, and then in the next breath say “rifle for sale, LNIB”, or “I would never let snow get on my rifle”. Etc, etc.

There are somewhere around 200 people that have been through a S2H class now. Around 30-40% of rifles that they have been used for the first day have been R700 customs (and a couple factory). Not one from a student that I can recall has made it through the very first day without malfunctions- despite multiple going out of their way to say we were FOS and theirs has never had a problem. Only mine has made it through pretest without malfunctions, and they have had problems roughly 50% of the classes.


Basically... humans are full of shit.





Round bottom action easy for a gunsmith to work on, with a relatively fast lock time.

Man, this is so true it's painful. Toss in what their dad always valued, what was cool and hyped by gun writers/influencers when they were in their high-school years, and raw need for tribal belonging and status signaling, and you have a grand slam of why people believe untrue, stupid $h*t in the gun world.

I've definitely been guilty of my share of that, but nothing sobers you up to reality like extended contact with reality. And the only way to get that with guns is to run them past their limits.

 

[Dobermann]

You can learn a lot about how your body reacts to cold immersion - and how to mitigate your body's panic reaction so that you can think clearly and in a useful manner immediately afterwards - by just doing ice/uber-cold-water plunges. *Insert Joe Rogan/Cam Hanes joke here*
We own a hot tub, sauna, and ice tank here on our mountain and my much-tougher-than-i wife does them in rotation for fun. I do them, reluctantly, for health and wellness reasons. She enjoys the pain, I do not. Also, I am a pansy who got very soft once I hit 40+ years old.

This is also done in some Japanese martial arts. We used to go to Japan in winter, where they'd crack a hole in the ice on a lake and make us all jump in wearing swimwear. No puffies to put on afterwards - just towel off, put on your gi, and get back on the mat to train. Aside from the physical desensitization, there are some mental tricks derived from Zen that can really help.

 

[mwoolsey5]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and reports. It helps all of us learn that have not been able to attend a S2H class yet.

Can anyone go into more depth on using/shooting with the Raven? How did it hold up? Did it feel like it needed tweaking still or was pretty much where it needed to be? Likes and/or dislikes about the new action after using it. If allowed to discuss, I think the big one for me and a lot of others is going to be, why go with this action over Tikka? They mentioned it being an Tikka clone with upgrades at the Hunt Expo, but didn’t really go into details. Also completely understand if they don’t want to release those details yet.

S2H scope:
Any thoughts from you or anyone else in the class on the hashmarks above the main center dot? In comparison to the Minox ZP5, it looks like the topmost hash mark is where the aim short dot should be, but was removed during development, so now I’m wondering if most users will just keep that in the back of their minds to use it that way in the field. What was usage like in the class? Were you able to take advantage of features like the aim short/long? Did the wind brackets work as intuitively as they seem on paper? I guess does it feel like most Hunters will use these features or just dial and use the center dot?

I hope this is fair to ask, but was there anything you did not like on the scope after using it?

 

[RockAndSage]

I had been thinking about a hunt out West but I was totally ignorant of the danger. I might have to reconsider that dream.

Nah man, find a way to make it happen. The biggest thing is the weather and the remoteness, but as long as you think ahead and think it through, it's just another satisfying part of the challenge. Get a tag for a more temperate part of the year, keep the right supplies and gear in your truck, along with an in-reach, and you're fine. Don't let it stop you - let it fuel you.

I'd be curious to know how many of us have either come close to death, or been in situations that could have resulted in death, when in the backcountry.

"God loves drunks, kids, and fools - because they get away with $h*t a sober and competent adult pays severely for."

When you factor in winter weather, I think a lot more people are "in situations that could have resulted in death" a lot more commonly than they realize, and just get lucky.

Just this last season, at least 3 or 4 guys died hunting in several incidents out here, that were covered on Rokslide with whole threads going about them, as the missing-person searches were ongoing. IIRC, each from some combination of weather and/or accidents. And in each, there were a bunch of comments from Roksliders who said they'd either been in that same area at that same time, or had similar things happen, or had related "by the grace of God" types of brushes with death where a bit of luck, a few minutes on the right side of a decision, or good forethought was all that kept them from getting killed.

And the chance of that happening to anyone...it's real, the moment their tires leave asphalt. That alone isn't appreciated as much as it should be. Not to be afraid of, but thought through. And that's really all it takes - a moment of appreciation that you're entering the unforgiving, where your survival is 100% up to you and nobody else, and to think and act accordingly.

The flip side of this, is a ton of western hunters come from pioneer stock, where self-reliance and being in places where there is literally no help for 50 miles in any direction is just a normal part of growing up. And, who roll into the hills in what amounts to prepper rigs, that are just their daily drivers. Practically any ranch truck is like this too. Varying amounts of water, food, tools, fire starting gear, spare jacket/clothing, extra blanket, spare hoses and belts, oil change components, tire chains, rope/straps, lights, high-lift jacks, some medical gear, truck-gun and ammo, small money stash - that $h*t's just normal daily driver stuff for a lot of us, crammed under and behind seats and in truck boxes in the bed all year long. Not out of paranoia, but because it's just normal, because it's normal to need some of it at some point, either for yourself or someone you come across. It's a bit of a cultural thing that just blends into the background, like wearing the right clothes to a given event.

Largely, it's not the big, remote back-country trip that kills guys. Those kinds of trips naturally get a lot of forethought. What gets people, is just not realizing they're stepping into that unforgiving space, right off the trailhead "for a quick hunt".

 

[Castle Rock]

Great post.

I'd be curious to know how many of us have either come close to death, or been in situations that could have resulted in death, when in the backcountry. I have ... and know others who have. In my specific cases, the cause wasn't gear-related - but the solutions (one actual, one if the scenario had played out differently) were gear-dependent, not just skills. Something to think about.

Interesting, dunno if I’m ready to share, I’ll think about it

"One thing that is clear to me now. The higher comb on the Rokstock makes a difference. Especially with muzzle flip. It was very noticeable compared to the traditional butted stock.

 

[Castle Rock]

Lost the last bit of the post to the above
I just can’t see how the reverse cant on the cheek can help with recoil control unless you are bearing down on it hard which will never be a good thing.
The benefit has to be with the high placement of the butt

 

[Dobermann]

Interesting, dunno if I’m ready to share, I’ll think about it

Yep - I didn't give details either, and I wasn't suggesting people should share these stories (including in this thread) ... I was more reinforcing @RockAndSage's point that being in the backcountry can be dangerous, and the right gear, in some circumstances, can help prevent harm.

 

[Josey D]

Yes, that’s what seems to be happening.

Would the thought process be that this would work for the rainly season as well? I've been on too many hunts in Kodiak, the ak peninsula, or even float hunts in the brooks where its 40's windy & rain/sleet the entire trip. By mid week raingear is wetting out & you are crawling in the bag every night damp. My synthetic bag always seems to cook it out, it may be damp by the end of the trip but I'm not shivering. I have always been hesitant to pack a down bag for this type of trip. Now Nov-March is always down but those are true winter hunts or camping on dog trails. Of course I have never owned a zenbivy so maybe its advanced a lot better than the slighty older WM or other down bags I have. I just can't bring my self to bring down to a prolonged rainstorm.

 

[Castle Rock]

Would the thought process be that this would work for the rainly season as well? I've been on too many hunts in Kodiak, the ak peninsula, or even float hunts in the brooks where its 40's windy & rain/sleet the entire trip. By mid week raingear is wetting out & you are crawling in the bag every night damp. My synthetic bag always seems to cook it out, it may be damp by the end of the trip but I'm not shivering. I have always been hesitant to pack a down bag for this type of trip. Now Nov-March is always down but those are true winter hunts or camping on dog trails. Of course I have never owned a zenbivy so maybe its advanced a lot better than the slighty older WM or other down bags I have. I just can't bring my self to bring down to a prolonged rainstorm.

Yeah I think it’s a totally different situation, mountain air is dry and it’s certainly possible to dry out,
I saw the video of the blokes doing girly jumps into the creek earlier in this thread and I doubt they were really wet through.