S2H winter class 2026 observations and lessons learned

[Cliff Gray]

On the footwear side of things, Im surprised there isn't more talk of using pacboots. Seems like they would offer more waterproofing than muks and better traction.

I wore pacboots a lot when I was horseback outfitting. They aren't near as comfortable as muckluks and are not quite as warm. Agreed on traction, pacboots win

my packboots would never stay waterproof for very long. from bending over, squatting, working with horses, etc.. anything I did much at all that bent the top of my foot would eventually crack the rand. both schnees and kenetreks. regardless, mukluks are far from waterproof also.

from my limited experience with the mukluks I don't think I'd go back in time and replace pack boots with them. The mukluks would end up saturated with horse poop mud and filth. the canvas and soft leather is a lot different from pack boots. to me that is the difference. mukluks are not well suited for wet snow, mud, rain, true filth. Clean, dry, frozen, cold as hell they are.

 

[5MilesBack]

I'm cool with all that. I think I'd rather just accept death than do the rewarming drill though.

That's one of those things that I'm OK doing when I have to, but not for practice. Kind of like packing elk off the mountain. I'll do it when I need to, but no way I'm carrying 80-100lb pack loads around all summer to prep.

 

[Cliff Gray]

[mention]Formidilosus [/mention] [mention]Cliff Gray [/mention] Form I’ve seen you mention Duckworth a couple times. Cliff has made videos mentioning the Duckworth Powder Hoody. I’ve been using one since last season. Haven’t done a rewarming drill wearing it yet, but it’s done well as a mid layer in a pretty wide range of conditions for me. Thoughts on this vs the Ranger sweater?


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next time I do rewarming I'll try the duckworth layers. particularly the vapor hoody as base layer. I think the powder hoody would be a long haul to get dried out. I'm sure you would stay warm but you would be wet for a long time.

I wore the powder hoody on the warmer days. The sub 15 degree and wind days the cowichan sweater is warmer.... but it is three times the weight. I don't have the experience to compare to the ranger sweaters.

 

[Firth]

I know this is meant in jest, but it's not bad at all. Other than staying up late and having guys check to make sure you're okay, it's just an exercise and might be a good one to know. I don't even remember being actually cold at any point during the drill. Actually, I'm going to amend that. Having silt in your base layer is the worst part. 100%

Half in jest.

I've jumped in a couple glacier fed lakes for fun but that was on a hot day. I fell through some rotten ice on a river during spring once. In that case I wasn't smart enough to not go on the ice, but I was smart enough to do it in a spot falling through wasn't life threatening.

I'd probably buck up and let myself get peer-pressured into the fun. I do see the value in learning how your body will react to that stressor. Probably just once though, beyond that I'd be a fan of learning from others' experiences.

 

[Livinfree77]

All I can say is that you Western hunters must be some bada$$ SOBs. I had been thinking about a hunt out West but I was totally ignorant of the danger. I might have to reconsider that dream.

@Livinfree77, did the salami rolls look anything like
these pepperoni/pepperjack rolls?

View attachment 1027718

More like this - With salami, pepperoncini peppers, olives, cheese and maybe mushrooms

 

[Dobermann]

[mention]Formidilosus [/mention] [mention]Cliff Gray [/mention] Form I’ve seen you mention Duckworth a couple times. Cliff has made videos mentioning the Duckworth Powder Hoody. I’ve been using one since last season. Haven’t done a rewarming drill wearing it yet, but it’s done well as a mid layer in a pretty wide range of conditions for me. Thoughts on this vs the Ranger sweater?

Hi Jake, I asked Form about Duckworth a few months back ... could be worth searching for if you haven't seen it already.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Hi Jake, I asked Form about Duckworth a few months back ... could be worth searching for if you haven't seen it already.

Appreciate that. I hadn’t seen it yet.


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[Dobermann]

My brother - have you ever hunted out west, in stormy, snowy mountains, in grizzly country?

We need to know the limitations of our gear.

With weather alone, a lot of us are entering a life-or-death environment just stepping out of the truck. But snow falls from branches onto guns. Breath moisture gets into actions, and freezes them in sub-zero temps. Get in and out of a warm vehicle and the gun frosts up, melts and flows deep into that gun's action when you warm it up again, and freezes it solid again next time you step back into the cold. Crap lube freezes up. People trip on branches under the snow. Guns encounter the unexpected.

What are the limitations of your gun?

Only if you know them, do you know how to address a given event. This information is important.

Great post.

I'd be curious to know how many of us have either come close to death, or been in situations that could have resulted in death, when in the backcountry. I have ... and know others who have. In my specific cases, the cause wasn't gear-related - but the solutions (one actual, one if the scenario had played out differently) were gear-dependent, not just skills. Something to think about.

 

[Jimbee]

I've been wearing Steger Mukluk/ Neos overshoes combo at work. Might be an option for someone for better traction, waterproofing and durability. Probably not quite as lightweight as Tundras, but seems close. (I have both)

 

[6.5x284]

I have the same combo.
What do you think a better option would be in this weight range?

Same legs and a wiser ridge warden ball head, or the wiser ridge warden on the backcountry lite legs are how I’d approach it if you needed that same weight range for your setup. You’re getting double vs triple pull legs though.

On the Ridgeline legs you’re double stacking heads unfortunately unless you like that ball head. I’ve found I don’t mind it shooting but I dislike it glassing or spotting.


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[112Savage]

I have both the powder hoodie and the ranger sweater. They’re not even comparable. The ranger weighs twice as much and feels much more durable. The powder hoodie is comfortable and very warm but suffers more in the wind. If I were in single degree temps for hours I would pick the ranger with fishnet base layer and then a puffy. I doubt you would feel the cold. May need to test this out.

 

[Jake Larsen]

I have both the powder hoodie and the ranger sweater. They’re not even comparable. The ranger weighs twice as much and feels much more durable. The powder hoodie is comfortable and very warm but suffers more in the wind. If I were in single degree temps for hours I would pick the ranger with fishnet base layer and then a puffy. I doubt you would feel the cold. May need to test this out.

Thanks for this. Your experience with the Powder matches mine. If it’s cold+wind, you need a wind layer. My layering MO has been woolnet, Alpha insulation vest, wind layer, powder hoody, puffy. It’s been my most versatile and comfortable system yet from early/warm to late/cold. Only adjustment I make is with the size of puffy. Sounds like swapping the ranger in for the powder might be another consideration as the temps drop.


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[Pilsner]

Yes, @Formidilosus, my R700 clone was a defiance renegade.

Feeding issues were very common. That was somewhat known prior to the class, but it really shows how big of an issue it is when the shooter is firing multiple rounds from a single position rather than slow firing for groups/not deliberately training. Definitely an issue.

The other issue that was mentioned was the failure to fire on my platform. This occurred at a time that there should have been no issues (just got out of the truck , set up packs, and loaded to fire). I can say the rifle APPEARED completely fine ( no visible snow, dirt, debris, and not even that cold). Good learning experience.

@Formidilosus - Does there exist a way to make a 700 action reliable? or at least a list of best practices to minimize risk with them? Short of leaving them shrink wrapped in the gun safe at home when I go hunting...
Appreciate the write up and would love to see a complete winter hunting gear packing list as mentioned above - clothing, gear, as mentioned in other posts but also the little tips and tricks like waterproofing the cotton blend fabric.
-Doc

 

[Pilsner]

Not a whole lot to add to what @RancherJohn wrote above, very well said.

Taking the time on the flat range to build a proper foundation of shooting skills, - body, breath, trigger, reset - really sets the stage for success across the entire range of positions and scenarios you might find yourself in, in the real world. As well as being a process to fall back on when things go sideways.

Being able to play around with the new products ("test") was fun. Form and the rest of the gang just wants honest feedback. Like it? Great. Didn't like it? Great. Why? What would change? There was no ego involved, they want to produce a product that works, however it gets there no one cares as long as it gets there.

If you have the scope bumpers, clock them. Your fingers will thank you.

The food might actually be the best part.

The winter class self selects for people that want to do it. Everyone was top notch! From shooting to BSing after hours to chipping in to clean up. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. The only downside to the whole week was the lack of snow, which meant no skiing, boo.

It is clearly evident that these guys shoot - a lot. The class is a distillation of years/decades of mistakes, failures and successes. Taking what proves out to work and then streamlining that even more into a process that is easy to understand, implement and teach.

A thousand thanks to @Formidilosus @Tommyhaak @longrangelead

What do y'all mean by "clocking" the scope bumpers - I have a couple sets in my cart ready to purchase as soon as HouseHold-6 signs off on the expenditure.
Thanks
-Doc

 

[Ajsomp]

What do y'all mean by "clocking" the scope bumpers - I have a couple sets in my cart ready to purchase as soon as HouseHold-6 signs off on the expenditure.
Thanks
-Doc

Where the plastic “hooks” are. So instead of the scope cover going straight up, it goes off to the side when you flip it up. I noted this when I first picked them up. I also offset the front set to the right which makes it easier to flip with my non firing hand

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus - Does there exist a way to make a 700 action reliable?

No. Not as reliable as Tikka, Sako, Blaser, MRC, Winchester, etc. No matter what you do to the action, you are left with the least reliable mainstream trigger design on the market. And there is no fixing it.

or at least a list of best practices to minimize risk with them?

This-

Short of leaving them shrink wrapped in the gun safe at home when I go hunting...

That’s the best way Kidding. Sort of.


If you want the best chance of a R700 custom action working for the longest time:
Keep them clean at all costs. Keep them dry at all costs. Make sure no sand, dust, debris, ice, snow- anything gets on them, or in them. Carry lighter fluid to flush the action and trigger out every day. Carry a packable cleaning rod and brush. These are all things that were/are routine when 700’s were being used seriously by the military. Even still, I am not surprised when problems show up.

I still use R700 pattern guns quite a bit- one of my favorite rifles is R700 based... but I still expect them to have problems when used in the field that other systems do not. I also prefer straight factory, good R700’s above all “custom” versions- they seem to run longer with less problems.

Having said that, other than sentimental value, there is no compelling reason for most to use a 700 based action/trigger.

Appreciate the write up and would love to see a complete winter hunting gear packing list as mentioned above - clothing, gear, as mentioned in other posts but also the little tips and tricks like waterproofing the cotton blend fabric.
-Doc

Oof. That’s a lot Maybe if I get time.