S2H winter class 2026 observations and lessons learned

[Gmr777]

@Formidilosus any other brands of wool sweaters that are good other than the Ranger? That seems like the best buy once, cry once option but what about some of the LL Bean options or other non traditional hunting brands.

 

[BjornF16]

@Formidilosus Did the Raven have a fluted bolt

If so, any issues with snow or debris?

 

[RockAndSage]

View attachment 1026793
Tikka(left) has a flat breech face.
Rem and clones use a recessed breech face with minimal clearance, usually .010" or less between bolt face/breech and bolt diameter/recess diameter.

Last year my 6.5 PRC had carbon from the suppressor come down the barrel. part of it got packed in the chamber, part between the bolt face and breech which wouldn't allow the bolt to close.

We didnt go down this rabbit trail, but I'd bet money snow failure is the same. The snow gets compressed to ice in the breech recess and that's it, now it has to melt or you mess around scraping out what you can reach with whatever you can find.

Flat breeches like Tikka let debris get squished out the sides and don't have nearly the blockage issues.

That is super interesting, and makes complete sense. That giant recess also creates a hell of a lot of cylindrical bearing-surface for things to freeze along, while making it hard for other particulate to just fall away from. Great info.

 

[Southern Lights]

Years back I was at a shoot and got hit by a snap snow storm. 50% of the R700s froze up or failed to work due to ice entering trigger group and bolts. The only rifles that worked the rest of the time was my Sako TRG and an AIAW.

The R700 has two main problems with snow and ice from what I've seen:

1) The flat lugs like to pack in snow/ice if it gets into the bolt lockup. Rifle won't go into battery or can freeze closed.
2) The gap around the safety allows lots of debris to enter and the trigger groups tend to handle ice/dirt very poorly once it happens.

A big feature of the Sako TRG/AIAW/Tikka and I suppose the Blaser is that the action is mostly enclosed on all sides (Blaser entirely), which prevents a ton of trouble from entering. My personal opinion also is the Sako/Tikka angled lugs don't pack snow/ice into them like the flat surfaces of the R700 either. I think this probably keeps them from freezing closed as well.

IMO, a fluted bolt may make this situation worse. The TRG has a very smooth bolt and nothing sticks to it and there is no real gap for debris to enter when it is shut. The other advantage of the TRG is the safety is in the trigger group which tends to be better protected vs. safety on top like R700/Tikka.


"Only the Leupold Mark 4 spotter was used consistently."

I know Leupold doesn't get much love around here, but the Mark 4 is a really good spotter. I sold my Kowa and kept the Leupold. Maybe the Kowa is marginally better, but the eye relief sucked and so did the FoV. The Mark 4 is just a nice compact rugged spotter.

With that said, I rarely carry a spotter and prefer a good set of LRF binos.

 

[Tommyhaak]

@Formidilosus any other brands of wool sweaters that are good other than the Ranger? That seems like the best buy once, cry once option but what about some of the LL Bean options or other non traditional hunting brands.

I bought and used LL Bean, Johnson, surplus, and Filson wool and was never totally happy with them. They wore out, smelled bad, and didn’t breathe. It would have been less painful to buy a Ranger sweater. I finally got one and it’s now my favorite. Worth the price…

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus any other brands of wool sweaters that are good other than the Ranger? That seems like the best buy once, cry once option but what about some of the LL Bean options or other non traditional hunting brands.

There is nothing quite like it. The LL Beans, Eddie Bower, etc all are ok, but are the wool sweaters everyone knows. The Ranger is different.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus Did the Raven have a fluted bolt

If so, any issues with snow or debris?

No. If people want their hints fluted, that’s fine- but the suggested setup won’t have them.

 

[Formidilosus]

Years back I was at a shoot and got hit by a snap snow storm. 50% of the R700s froze up or failed to work due to ice entering trigger group and bolts. The only rifles that worked the rest of the time was my Sako TRG and an AIAW.

The R700 has two main problems with snow and ice from what I've seen:

1) The flat lugs like to pack in snow/ice if it gets into the bolt lockup. Rifle won't go into battery or can freeze closed.
2) The gap around the safety allows lots of debris to enter and the trigger groups tend to handle ice/dirt very poorly once it happens.

A big feature of the Sako TRG/AIAW/Tikka and I suppose the Blaser is that the action is mostly enclosed on all sides (Blaser entirely), which prevents a ton of trouble from entering. My personal opinion also is the Sako/Tikka angled lugs also don't pack snow/ice into them like the flat surfaces of the R700 either. I think this probably keeps them from freezing closed as well.

IMO, a fluted bolt may make this situation worse. The TRG has a very smooth bolt and nothing sticks to it and there is no real gap for debris to enter when it is shut. The other advantage of the TRG is the safety is in the trigger group which tends to be better protected vs. safety on top like R700/Tikka.

Yes indeedy.

"Only the Leupold Mark 4 spotter was used consistently."

I know Leupold doesn't get much love around here, but the Mark 4 is a really good spotter. I sold my Kowa and kept the Leupold. Maybe the Kowa is marginally better, but the eye relief sucked and so did the FoV. The Mark 4 is just a nice compact rugged spotter.

With that said, I rarely carry a spotter and prefer a good set of LRF binos.

Yep- currently the best field spotter that I’ve seen. I’ve heard the ZeroTech is the same, maybe better, but haven’t used it yet.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

What magazines were used in the tikkas?

 

[Ajsomp]

There is nothing quite like it. The LL Beans, Eddie Bower, etc all are ok, but are the wool sweaters everyone knows. The Ranger is different.

I can’t decide if it’s really enough to buy the new 100% wool version over the vintage version (it’s a blend) I scored early winter

 

[Coopsdaddy]

I can’t decide if it’s really enough to buy the new 100% wool version over the vintage version (it’s a blend) I scored early winter

That’s one expensive ass sweater!

 

[Ajsomp]

That’s one expensive ass sweater!

Yeah - it is. I’m okay with buying quality stuff because I don’t own a ton of things. If it’s worth it, it’s valued appropriately. If it sucks or it’s just for the name (Kuiu I’m looking at you) it’s expensive. The things I own need to be multi use, durable, and functional. and most often that means it’s more costly.

 

[nm.otter]

View attachment 1026793
Tikka(left) has a flat breech face.
Rem and clones use a recessed breech face with minimal clearance,

Now in my "pictures worth a thousand words" collection.

Add snow/ice, close bolt. Create compressed ice.

Open bolt, Tikka clears. Remage remains impacted.

 

[nm.otter]

currently the best field spotter that I’ve seen. I’ve heard the ZeroTech is the same, maybe better, but haven’t used it yet.

...perhaps an eventual candidate for some reticle refinement?