S2H Scope Interest

[Rock’N Tacos]

Only thing you left out was the "C" word- Cult!

I have been working on self control .

 

[Chris in TN]

As soon as you go up into the mid 20oz territory you have a lot of competition and offering from companies you know will be around for a while (trijicon, nightforce). Initially they were saying 20oz and that gets some attention and interest (myself included).

I enjoy your posts and don’t think you’re completely off base with what I removed from your quote.

But I’d ask you what you wanted to accomplish by saying that stuff and whether you thought further discussion would actually accomplish it.

As for the question about weight, let’s say you wanted at least 12x, reliable dialing, and you’re content with other reticles and other, apparently slightly lesser, glass quality options.

Set all that aside and tell me - do you think this scope loses out on the merits, if we just look at ‘25 ounces for $1000’?

Not saying your answer will be right or wrong. I’m just curious as to how you see that and what other options you would put forth, under $1000 and under 25 ounces, for reliable dialing scopes?

 

[Rock’N Tacos]

I enjoy your posts and don’t think you’re completely off base with what I removed from your quote.

But I’d ask you what you wanted to accomplish by saying that stuff and whether you thought further discussion would actually accomplish it.

As for the question about weight, let’s say you wanted at least 12x, reliable dialing, and you’re content with other reticles and other, apparently slightly lesser, glass quality options.

Set all that aside and tell me - do you think this scope loses out on the merits, if we just look at ‘25 ounces for $1000’?

Not saying your answer will be right or wrong. I’m just curious as to how you see that and what other options you would put forth, under $1000 and under 25 ounces, for reliable dialing scopes?

You can get the maven 1.2 for less on sale and they regularly run sales.

You can find the trijicon on sales regularly as well.

Also, no way this scope stays $999 unless they are able to get a big piece of market share or are running a charity. Its how manufacturing works. Its a teaser price. It will go up.

And why take the risk on throwing money at a new company that isn’t putting out something different enough to stick around unless the two points you removed from my post apply? You put this scope out at 20oz and it is a game changer and why I believe so many got excited. 25 oz is the same thing everybody else is doing.

We didn’t even talk about warranty and the cost to the company associated with those and the value some people place on them.

Side note - if they got this scope down to 18oz and it was drop tested, myself and several other would spend double or tripple the $999…

 

[Chris in TN]

You can get the maven 1.2 for less on sale and they regularly run sales.

You can find the trijicon on sales regularly as well.

Also, no way this scope stays $999 unless they are able to get a big piece of market share or are running a charity. Its how manufacturing works. Its a teaser price. It will go up.

If the price goes up that’s a sure sign the market perceives a value higher than offered price. I think your prediction will happen. Reticle aside, I see it as a value buy at $1000.

(Sidebar: ZT has moa reticles they could add to this. Their PHR 4 reticle looks pretty usable if it could be readily adapted to FFP. Or - better - just take the THLR reticle, round the various major subtensions to the nearest moa approximation, make the 0.2mrad windage marks 1moa, make the various 1/2mrad stuff 2moa, make the 1mrad stuff 4moa or 2-2moa....that'd be pretty much all it took. If they really wanted to market it to us easterners they could further narrow the windage hashmark section as it's hard for us to find reason to shoot in 20moa (or ~5mrad) wind conditions. Something like 10-12moa would be....awesome, IMO. But that's a secondary consideration. ETA: Or compromise, give us 10-12moa of windage but instead of making the thick crosshairs come in further, leave them about where they stop now, and make the tapered tip section narrower/longer?)

My hangup with the Maven is that the reliability of the 1.2 seems to be more of a happy accident than anything else. They could discontinue it next week and replace it with some 'improved' model that was less reliable. I honestly think Leupold did that to some extent over the years. Also, the Maven is currently $1400 and I doubt you see them below $1200 very often again. I'd much prefer to reward a company that grasped the basic problems most of us seem to complain about and showed an interest in working on them.

I think I could live with the Maven moa-2 reticle but even as a moa guy I believe the simplified THLR offered here is a great concept.

 

[MuleyFever]

What do you guys think of doing a deal like this. I saw another optic company doing this pre order.
View attachment 1014271

It should go by Rokslide member seniority.

 

[Chris in TN]

And why take the risk on throwing money at a new company that isn’t putting out something different enough to stick around unless the two points you removed from my post apply? You put this scope out at 20oz and it is a game changer and why I believe so many got excited. 25 oz is the same thing everybody else is doing.

We didn’t even talk about warranty and the cost to the company associated with those and the value some people place on them.

Side note - if they got this scope down to 18oz and it was drop tested, myself and several other would spend double or tripple the $999…

Fair questions but at the end of the day that's the beauty of capitalism. These guys are taking some risks. We can reward them or not.

As for the 18 ounce part...I agree that they'd sell a gazillion of them at 18 ounces but TBH in the world I live in where everything has a budget - I'd rather have 25 ounces at $1000 than 18 ounces at $2000. This ain't racing and I don't have sponsors buying my stuff for me. Besides......probably three decades ago some western hunting guru said 'optics cost nothing, weigh nothing, and take up no room'. His point being that their importance exceeded any weight or cost or space consideration. I'm not saying he was universally correct but I think the underlying principle is sound. Pushing weight down seems to always come at the expense of reliability. I'd rather have the weight. At 25 ounces it's still 5 ounces lighter than a NF SHV and I didn't blink at toting one of those around last fall.

 

[Shortschaf]

Yeah this appears to meet or exceed all the specs of a mk5hd 3-18 that I used to think was the bees knees for a hunting scope.
And at half the price.
Don't need to be a cultist to like that!

 

[Josh Boyd]

It should go by Rokslide member seniority.

I am in full support of this!

 

[Marbles]

You can get the maven 1.2 for less on sale and they regularly run sales.

No, Maven upped the price and didn't even mark the RS1.2 down for Black Friday last year. So, rather out of touch statement.

The RS1.2 can be found used for about 1K at present. In part because of Maven's crappy attitude that shows they have no clue why the mil RS1.2 is there best selling scope, which is problematic as they might "fix it" in the future.

 

[ChrisAU]

It should go by Rokslide member seniority.

I’m game for post count rank lol

 

[waspocrew]

I’m game for post count rank lol

I better start upping my posts! Get ready for the spamming

 

[dårlig jeger]

I’m game for post count rank lol

This would probably drive site activity up enough to order more scopes with the increased revenue.

Start a second post count on a predetermined date where everyone begins with 0, watch the website flood with page views and posts.

Maybe reactions would be the better count. That way we don't have 10,000 post members looking like they are trying to get classified access every day.

 

[waspocrew]

No, Maven upped the price and didn't even mark the RS1.2 down for Black Friday last year. So, rather out of touch statement.

The RS1.2 can be found used for about 1K at present. In part because of Maven's crappy attitude that shows they have no clue why the mil RS1.2 is there best selling scope, which is problematic as they might "fix it" in the future.

The price increase was a bummer for sure. At $1200, I felt it was a good deal. At $1400, I’m not as quick to buy. Currently eyeing a used one for $1100.