.243 and 6mm CM are so close ballistically I would simply buy which ever one was available. And being the .243 was a Tikka, that would make my decision for me right there.
Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk
Ruger American Predator or Howa KRG?
- Thread starter jjohnsonElknewbie
- Start date
Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk
- Thread Starter
- #22
OP
I can't argue with this and my only hang up is the lack of heavy (100+ gr) factory bullets for the .243. The .243 is cheaper to shoot than the 6mm, but the latter has several heavy factory bullet offerings, most notably the 108 ELDM.
If I gotta reload to shoot the bullets I want to shoot, I'd rather leverage the 6 creed's superior case design. It's not an urgent project, so I can continue to spin on it for a while yet. LOL!
I'm going to re-read the .243/6mm hunting success thread and see if it sways either way.
My son has a Ruger American in 7mm-08 and my daughter a Howa mini in 6mm ARC. Howa has been a bit more accurate, though that could easily be down to sample variation or what I think is a very good case design in the arc.
Both had terrible factory stocks, though that does not appear to you be a concern given your plans. Both have underwhelming DBMs, but again not likely a relevant issue for you.
I don't mind the two-stage trigger on the Howa, and with a very straightforward clip of a spring coil it is now quite good. I put a spring from Mcarbo in the Ruger and it is now acceptable. If you don't mind it two stage, I would definitely give the nod to the Howa for trigger.
Fit and finish, action smoothness, aesthetics, general feeling of quality, all go to the Howa by a comfortable margin for me.
That Ruger came to us in a good used deal a few years ago when things were financially a bit tighter for us than they are now. The Howa was a decision based on the appeal of the mini action for a very compact kids' rifle, and the appeal of a mild recoiling 6mm. If there was an easy way to do a 6ARC Tikka, I would likely have gone that route and just dealt with the extra action length. I was not interested in a .243 or CM case size for recoil reasons, and there's still part of me that thinks a .223 Tikka would have been the better choice. All that said, I've ended up quite pleased with that Howa.
Do you hand load? The fast twist .243 Tikka suggestion is a solid one, though as you said the factory heavy .243 selection is very slim.
I'd rather have a sub-optimal case in a Tikka than an optimal case in a Ruger. You could easily go Ackley in it, and get good modern angles on your case if that's a big deal for you.
Both had terrible factory stocks, though that does not appear to you be a concern given your plans. Both have underwhelming DBMs, but again not likely a relevant issue for you.
I don't mind the two-stage trigger on the Howa, and with a very straightforward clip of a spring coil it is now quite good. I put a spring from Mcarbo in the Ruger and it is now acceptable. If you don't mind it two stage, I would definitely give the nod to the Howa for trigger.
Fit and finish, action smoothness, aesthetics, general feeling of quality, all go to the Howa by a comfortable margin for me.
That Ruger came to us in a good used deal a few years ago when things were financially a bit tighter for us than they are now. The Howa was a decision based on the appeal of the mini action for a very compact kids' rifle, and the appeal of a mild recoiling 6mm. If there was an easy way to do a 6ARC Tikka, I would likely have gone that route and just dealt with the extra action length. I was not interested in a .243 or CM case size for recoil reasons, and there's still part of me that thinks a .223 Tikka would have been the better choice. All that said, I've ended up quite pleased with that Howa.
Do you hand load? The fast twist .243 Tikka suggestion is a solid one, though as you said the factory heavy .243 selection is very slim.
I'd rather have a sub-optimal case in a Tikka than an optimal case in a Ruger. You could easily go Ackley in it, and get good modern angles on your case if that's a big deal for you.
- Thread Starter
- #24
OP
Tikka begain putting 1:8 twist on .243 this year. Here is a link to the rifle at Bud's. It is listed as a "special order prodcut".
1:8 Tikka on Bud's
The 6 Creed's shoulder angle is 30 degrees vs. the 40 degree angle on the .243. This provides better case life from reduced case stretch and required trimming. To achieve the same with the .243 you need an Ackley Improved barrel and there isn't any factory .243 AI ammo. You could rebarrel and shoot standard .243 factory ammo in a .243 AI, and eventually handload to take advantage of the fire formed cases. However, this is added time and expense that is already negated by the 6 Creed out of the box.
- Thread Starter
- #25
OP
Thank you for the detailed response.
I do handload for my .25-06 and am in a similar situation that I'd rather not repeat for my daughters' rifle. Once I shoot out the barrel on my .25, I plan to rebarrel with a fast twist .25-06 AI to reduce trimming, improve case life, and launch the 130-140 grain bullets. Until then, I'll stick to my 115 grain NBT.
After re-reading the 6mm/.243 hunting success thread and a couple other related threads, I've settled on the 6 creed. It's the easy button for sure with great factory ammo and good handloading potential as well. I may wait a bit and see if Tikka chambers a rifle in it before taking the plunge on the RA or Howa.
Formidilosus
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 8,265
Just for shooting or for hunting? If for hunting, what animals legitimately?
The Howa is a far better rifle. Americans tend to shoot well, however that is the lowest of bars, everything else is better on the Howa. Then, everything is better on a Tikka than a Howa.
- Thread Starter
- #27
OP
Western big game- deer, antelope, elk. My oldest shot and carried my RA .308 last fall, and told me recently that she didn't enjoy shooting it due to the recoil. It's a 9 pound rifle, and I replaced the recoil pad with a Limbsaver since last fall. However, I don't want to invest any more money into a RA to further mitigate.
Thank you for the recommendation and confirming my suspicions.
Formidilosus
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 8,265
Having done it a bunch, with a bunch of different people, I would make it a two rifle affair. First by a long shot would be a Tikka 223 with 1-8” twist with 77gr TMK’s. Kills deer, antelope, and elk like gangbusters. Then, if you end up hunting a state where the 223 isn’t legal for elk- a 243 Tikka, or rebarrel one to a 6CM. Alternatively, for the second rifle a Howa Mini 6 ARC would do very well for the use.
In any case I would not do a KRG Bravo chassis because of the weight. Anyone using a rifle should be able to manipulate and handle it competently without help, and a 10lb gun isn’t that.
- Thread Starter
- #29
OP
Thank you as always for the sage advice. My 9# RA in laminate stock wasn't super pleasant to hike with last fall, and now that I see the KRG weighs 3 pounds, that is definitely not ideal.
Time to start over and consider the .223 angle. She hasn't shot my .25 Tikka, and that may be a future #2 gun option as well to fill the gap, but it'll depend on her recoil response to it. It has OEM T3x stock with vertical grip and upgraded Limbsaver recoil pad. I could also work up a mild 75-115gr load for it.
Formidilosus
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 8,265
Yes sir. I would highly suggest the T3 223 combo that is bantered about here. Everyone I know that has tried it has said it is the best choice in rifles they’ve made.
So a few thoughts to quantify the differences between these because the Rokslide answer is always Tikka but you rarely hear why.
For action smoothness the Tikka is light years ahead of both. But of the two you are talking about, the Ruger is definitely the rougher option.
On feeding, the Ruger is pretty abysmal, the Howas are decent for the full size 1500 actions and pretty crappy for the mini actions. The stock Tikka mags feed like a champ.
The Ruger trigger is really just a placeholder to replace with something decent which eats up any savings from buying the cheaper gun. The Howa is a two-stage that can be significantly improved with a cheap trigger spring from eBay. However some people don’t like two stage triggers. The Tikka is likely the best factory trigger made. It can be adjusted down to 2-2.5# and is super crisp with no take up or creep to speak of.
The stocks on the Ruger are crap and there are few options to replace it. The standard Howa stocks are heavy and soft in the forend, but there are more options from the factory and aftermarket. The Tikka stocks are serviceable and modifiable, and there is a ton of aftermarket if they just aren’t your thing.
The last thing I’ll cover is reliability. The Tikkas are the best of the litter because the action is the best at keeping dirt and debris out of the important parts. The Howa has open spaces that allow crap into the bolt races, the bolt release and safety which leads to the trigger mechanism. I haven’t really evaluated ingress for debris on the Ruger because it doesn’t feed reliably without debris.
In summary, any of these rifles will work for you in perfect conditions. As the conditions get crappier, the Howa and particularly the Ruger are more likely to fail you. Buying a better rifle saves you piece of mind and ultimately saves you the expense of upgrading.
For action smoothness the Tikka is light years ahead of both. But of the two you are talking about, the Ruger is definitely the rougher option.
On feeding, the Ruger is pretty abysmal, the Howas are decent for the full size 1500 actions and pretty crappy for the mini actions. The stock Tikka mags feed like a champ.
The Ruger trigger is really just a placeholder to replace with something decent which eats up any savings from buying the cheaper gun. The Howa is a two-stage that can be significantly improved with a cheap trigger spring from eBay. However some people don’t like two stage triggers. The Tikka is likely the best factory trigger made. It can be adjusted down to 2-2.5# and is super crisp with no take up or creep to speak of.
The stocks on the Ruger are crap and there are few options to replace it. The standard Howa stocks are heavy and soft in the forend, but there are more options from the factory and aftermarket. The Tikka stocks are serviceable and modifiable, and there is a ton of aftermarket if they just aren’t your thing.
The last thing I’ll cover is reliability. The Tikkas are the best of the litter because the action is the best at keeping dirt and debris out of the important parts. The Howa has open spaces that allow crap into the bolt races, the bolt release and safety which leads to the trigger mechanism. I haven’t really evaluated ingress for debris on the Ruger because it doesn’t feed reliably without debris.
In summary, any of these rifles will work for you in perfect conditions. As the conditions get crappier, the Howa and particularly the Ruger are more likely to fail you. Buying a better rifle saves you piece of mind and ultimately saves you the expense of upgrading.
Artanis95
Lil-Rokslider
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2020
- Messages
- 145
Howa hands down
Similar threads
Featured Video
Stats
Latest Articles
-
Gunnison Mule Deer and Beyond with Brandon Diamond
-
Idaho Mule Deer Management with Eric Freeman
-
TT#28 Idaho Bear Hunting with Roger Holscher and Chris Young
-
Rockstar Research with Kevin Monteith
-
Hunting Big Mule Deer: Obey the Wind & Still-Hunting
-
TT#27 DIY New Zealand Hunting with Australian Duo Miller and Pitts
-
Fewer Bucks, More Fawns?
-
Mathews Lift Review
-
Wyoming Range Winter Wrap-Up with Jeff Short
-
The Pursuit with Cliff Gray