RokStok

[Sacrvrrat72]

Until now I never realized people expected aftermarket stocks to be 100% drop in. I started using McMillan stocks first back 18-20 years ago. They all got tweaked here/there then bedded. I’ve had McMillan and manners both fit close and some had to be bedded. Just part of modifying things. My rokstock is as close as any after market stock I’ve had. It’s also the factory bottom metal/plastic. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if I change the bm that a modification would be needed.

It’s as if they live under a rock or just want to complain and be obtuse. I have never counted on aftermarket equipment to be perfect in any industry. Hope they never order aftermarket automotive products.

 

[swavescatter]

I think demand-side push for improved production quality is a good thing.

 

[atmat]

It’s as if they live under a rock or just want to complain and be obtuse. I have never counted on aftermarket equipment to be perfect in any industry. Hope they never order aftermarket automotive products.

Or, alternatively, they’re new to modifying guns.

I have lots of aftermarket equipment in lots of different industries that are truly drop-in replacements. It’s not uncommon in today’s day and age for lots of industries.

 

[omicron1792]

Or, alternatively, they’re new to modifying guns.

I have lots of aftermarket equipment in lots of different industries that are truly drop-in replacements. It’s not uncommon in today’s day and age for lots of industries.

Agreed.

So these stocks are only meant for people with lots of time tinkering with guns? Or meant to be installed by a gunsmith?

We get groupthink in here. The VAST majority of consumers that buy a stock marketed as “drop In” expect it to be just that.

 

[Formidilosus]

I think demand-side push for improved production quality is a good thing.

Absolutely it is. But it also needs be accompanied with an understanding of what is realistic

 

[Formidilosus]

Agreed.

So these stocks are only meant for people with lots of time tinkering with guns? Or meant to be installed by a gunsmith?

Neither. It’s simply ignorance of some in what is reality. There is no widespread issue of the inlet depth being bad.

We get groupthink in here.

Most of the group think is from people that lack enough experience to believe something is amiss.

The VAST majority of consumers that buy a stock marketed as “drop In” expect it to be that.

What aftermarket stock are you buying that you believe is fit better on average than the RokStok- that isn’t a one off custom?

 

[omicron1792]

Neither. It’s simply if ignorance of some in what is reality.





Mist of the group think is from people that lack enough experience to believe something is amiss.




What aftermarket stock are you buying that you believe is fit better on average than the RokStok- that isn’t a one off custom?

I don’t have a dog in the fight. I’ve had 3 or four aftermarket stocks, not a rokstock, and 1 of the 3 I couldn’t get to work and had to take to a gunsmith.

I compare it to reloading. If you read alot here, which I do, you end up thinking almost everyone reloads. But if I’m with my buddies IRL that hunt not a one of them reloads. I just think sometimes we forget the common consumer doesn’t know squat about all this stuff. Haha

 

[omicron1792]

@Formidilosus how are you liking the Blaser r8? Killed any animals with it yet?

 

[Lawnboi]

I can wrap my head around inlet depth being off on a 700, there’s a ton of different options for that platform.

The tikka bottom plastic and mags are a pretty know commodity at this point. I havnt needed to shave screws for a tikka stock and iv installed quite a few in McMillan and manners, well over 10 now. On top of that you really don’t see issues with chassis. I’d be pissed had I gotten and had to mess with screws from those companies. I did have to on a custom tikka build from who I thought was a reputable smith who is talked up on here, but when I got the gun it wouldn’t even feed; that was an AG stock and most of the reason I won’t waste my time with another.

I wonder if it’s difficult due to the material or what.

 

[Marbles]

Agreed.

So these stocks are only meant for people with lots of time tinkering with guns? Or meant to be installed by a gunsmith?

We get groupthink in here. The VAST majority of consumers that buy a stock marketed as “drop In” expect it to be just that.

There are two things at play.

One, for the price I'm fine with imperfections and having to improve things.

Two, all the talk at the start of this bout how they were going to be better than the current industry. My last Rokstok came with the Red carpet card, but literally the action inlet was milled a 1/10 of an inch too short and the action wouldn't seat. Easy fix with a band file, but very funny as allegedly someone had checked it. Not something I'm going to bother UM about, but not something I'm going to pretend didn't happen either.

Tikka can mass produce actions that are very consistent. I have a hard time believing stocks cannot be milled consistently. Is it worth the effort? I don't know and I'm not in the stock business because I don't want to find out.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus how are you liking the Blaser r8? Killed any animals with it yet?

Not yet. I think I will use it for most stuff this year though. On the stock front, it’s dramatic the difference in shootability between it (or any conventional stock), and a well designed one like a KRG Bravo, ROKStok, etc. When everything is perfect it’s a legit sub .6 MOA for ten round gun. However, screw up those things even a little and it’s a 1.25 MOA group. The amount of care with arm position, grip, and shoulder pressure to achieve the inherent system precision is completely different than what it takes with a well designed stock.

 

[omicron1792]

Not yet. I think I will use it for most stuff this year though. On the stock front, it’s dramatic the difference in shootability between it (or any conventional stock), and a well designed one like a KRG Bravo, ROKStok, etc. When everything is perfect it’s a legit sub .6 MOA for ten round gun. However, screw up those things even a little and it’s a 1.25 MOA group. The amount of care with arm position, grip, and shoulder pressure to achieve the inherent system precision is completely different than what it takes with a well designed stock.

Stock design is definitely a weak point. Lots of European companies making after market stocks now but rarely can they be bought in the USA. Why I was so excited y’all might get a rokstock going for it. That one has to be a drop in though. Ha

 

[Formidilosus]

Stock design is definitely a weak point. Lots of European companies making after market stocks now but rarely can they be bought in the USA. Why I was so excited y’all might get a rokstock going for it. That one has to be a drop in though. Ha

Haha. I don’t know that a carbon fiber RS will be made for the R8’s. There are too many issues, and multiple versions. Maybe eventually, but even the wood one was way more problematic than anyone expected.

 

[ehayes]

Thank you. Will you please call UM and speak to Jake about it. Him getting real numbers is the only way to attempt getting change.

The R700 isn’t surprising at all. There is no across the board true “drop in” due to the wildly different manufacturers of actions. The Tikka should be correct. Because I can not remember- do the RokStoks come with aftermarket action screws? If so, and even if they don’t- can you measure the functional length of them with factory if you have some.

I used to have a Mesa Precision tikka stock. They sent aftermarket action screw with their stock when I bought it. Those were in fact longer than tikka factory screws. Not sure if that still holds true for Pure Precision products. The Rokstok uses tikka factory length screws.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Except that isn’t what I said or did. Your response or “take” on this is off center as most of your posts tend to be. What was my first post in this subject today? Hint- it’s actually trying to get full information to see where the issue lies. I have had multiple people with multiple RokStoks and Tikkas say the same thing, and yet when we measured the depth- they were right in spec. I can’t- no one can, go to UM and present an issue to be fixed without the real information- because UM can’t go to Stokys and tell them what to fix without it. You have to have the real measurements to start.


Now, for my stance on it:

ALL the companies suck. The whole industry sucks. Almost no company actually tests or has real QC processes. My response to you was because of the “you get what you pay for” statements being posted. No, actually you don’t. The poster that started this today has a stance that any of the other stock makers are better- they aren’t. Manners are the absolute worst in this regard, McMillan overall is just as bad or worse than Stockys. I’ve seen 3-4 Peak 44 stocks, and one of them the inlet had to be adjusted- that was an R700 stock, so not unusual.

My point is saying “Stockys is a POS/whatever” because of the inlet depth on a Few of a thousand plus stocks sold- ok, then you are literally saying ALL the stock companies are POS’s…. Which I actually would sort of agree with.

I hear you. But @Stockys does kind of “extra suck” though when it comes to overall fit/finish and inletting/fitment if I’m being fully transparent between all the aftermarket stocks I’ve used.

I had issues with the VGs going way back. My first two Rokstoks were spot on. All of the Rokstoks since thej, other than the wood stock, has had inletting issues that I just work around.

 

[HuntHarder]

Neither. It’s simply ignorance of some in what is reality. There is no widespread issue of the inlet depth being bad.

What do you consider "widespread?" Seems like a bunch of people have had to shim bottom metals or trim action screws. Whether or not you deem this an issue or not, I guess determines your response.

 

[swavescatter]

My MDT HNT26 was a true drop-in. With the exception of the bolt stop retention pin, so was my XLR Element 4.0.

My ignorant, non-machinist-gunsmith suspicion is that the issue with most composite stocks is that they lack a true fiducial point to register the mill. If they would put some bedding pillars/mini Al chassis in the action inlet area that could potentially help. Cost would go up of course, but as is I won't be buying any more Stockys/UM stocks. At this point I'll just hold out for Gunwerks style redesign of the HNT26...

 

[Formidilosus]

What do you consider "widespread?" Seems like a bunch of people have had to shim bottom metals or trim action screws. Whether or not you deem this an issue or not, I guess determines your response.

A “bunch”- or a few? And, having to use washers happens with factory stocks and the factory plastic BM too. And with multiple different aftermarket bottom metals. Is the factory stock off?

I have seen triple digits of Rokstocks- I have installed 50+ at S2H classes in front the students. One (1) has needed the rear action screw filed most likely due to the inlet being a bit shallow, 1 the screw was filed because we had no washers and the factory BM was pulling through, and several have needed washers with the factory BM. About the same numbers of factory stocks that have needed the same.
In that same time- 6 or 7x McMillans had the inlet off center, at least 4x Manners that were completely unusable without a full bed job out of 10-12.
I have been very critical of Stocky’s and UM openly- however, on this subject, it isn’t them that is out of the norm for the industry. I don’t give a rip about “finish” or a mold line or whatever- so on that, I don’t care and yall can argue all you want.
As for being able to remove factory stock, drop in Tikka, screw on BM and go- the Rokstoks have been far less headache in the last year than the other manufacturers. The only easier one is the KRG’s and they come with their own action screws and totally different BM.

 

[Formidilosus]

I hear you. But @Stockys does kind of “extra suck” though when it comes to overall fit/finish

I could care less about “finish”, so sure.

and inletting/fitment if I’m being fully transparent between all the aftermarket stocks I’ve used.

That has not been what I have seen with dozens of RokStoks, Manners, McMillans, and Mesa’s. I have not had a ROKStok that I could not get to function properly within 2-3 minutes on the tailgate of a truck. That is has most certainly not been the case with the others.

I had issues with the VGs going way back. My first two Rokstoks were spot on. All of the Rokstoks since thej, other than the wood stock, has had inletting issues that I just work around.

What inletting issues?

 

[BLJ]

My MDT HNT26 was a true drop-in. With the exception of the bolt stop retention pin, so was my XLR Element 4.0.

My ignorant, non-machinist-gunsmith suspicion is that the issue with most composite stocks is that they lack a true fiducial point to register the mill. If they would put some bedding pillars/mini Al chassis in the action inlet area that could potentially help. Cost would go up of course, but as is I won't be buying any more Stockys/UM stocks. At this point I'll just hold out for Gunwerks style redesign of the HNT26...

That was mentioned earlier and @Formidilosus said it would nearly double the cost.