Rokstok review thread

[JollyRoger]

How do you like that mach s?

It’s awesome. I have a CGS Hyperion and an Enticer L-Ti also. I think those two are slightly quieter but they’re a few inches longer also. The LPM Mach S is perfect for a hunting rifle I think. According to pew science (I know… grain of salt) it suppresses slightly better than th DD Enticer S-Ti

 

[kswaterfowl]

It’s awesome. I have a CGS Hyperion and an Enticer L-Ti also. I think those two are slightly quieter but they’re a few inches longer also. The LPM Mach S is perfect for a hunting rifle I think. According to pew science (I know… grain of salt) it suppresses slightly better than th DD Enticer S-Ti

I just bought a DD wolfhunter, because I got it for $620. But I was seriously considering the mach s.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I pulled the quickstix off my poles and am just looping the straps now. Speed wise you might win if you have the long Spartan legs. Though, if we are going from walking in the mountains to shooting, it would depend. In county were I'm using a pole and an axe, I would not have one pole in hand. In county were I have both poles in hand, I would be curious as to how you pack the Spartan.

It's either on the gun if a shot is imminent, down my back like a sword in a sheath, or strapped to outside of the pack. Depends on what's happening.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

It’s awesome. I have a CGS Hyperion and an Enticer L-Ti also. I think those two are slightly quieter but they’re a few inches longer also. The LPM Mach S is perfect for a hunting rifle I think. According to pew science (I know… grain of salt) it suppresses slightly better than th DD Enticer S-Ti

What would you say, in your experience, is the general "best sound to length/weight ratio" for a mountain hunting gun with an 18-20" barrel? This is an open question to others as well @Formidilosus @Marbles @NSI

I need two more cans for dedicated hunting guns that are both already threaded 5/8-24 and ready to roll.

 

[JollyRoger]

What would you say, in your experience, is the general "best sound to length/weight ratio" for a mountain hunting gun with an 18-20" barrel? This is an open question to others as well @Formidilosus @Marbles @NSI

I need two more cans for dedicated hunting guns that are both already threaded 5/8-24 and ready to roll.

My experience is pretty limited compared to others. But keeping overall length and weight down, while keeping good sound suppression seems like good cans in the 6.5” to maybe 8” is a good balance. The LPM Mach S is 7” with the mount, I think the DD Enticer L-Ti is just over 8” and their S-Ti is around 7”. I’d have no issue using any of them on a 18-20” rifle.

The CGS Hyperion is incredible but that thing weighs almost a pound and is over 9” I believe. It lives on my AI AT

I’ve shot a few Dead Air cans too… the CGS, LPM and DD all sound way, WAY better to me.

 

[JollyRoger]

I just bought a DD wolfhunter, because I got it for $620. But I was seriously considering the mach s.

I was strongly considering the Wolf Hunter or S-Ti also but the LPM was in stock at the time.


One thing that I don’t see mentioned a lot with the Rokstok is how great it feels in the hand to carry. Especially compared to the chunky Bravo

This pic is before the UM short bolt and new bottom metal

 

[kswaterfowl]

I was strongly considering the Wolf Hunter or S-Ti also but the LPM was in stock at the time.


One thing that I don’t see mentioned a lot with the Rokstok is how great it feels in the hand to carry. Especially compared to the chunky Bravo

That is a slick looking rifle.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

What would you say, in your experience, is the general "best sound to length/weight ratio" for a mountain hunting gun with an 18-20" barrel? This is an open question to others as well @Formidilosus @Marbles @NSI

I need two more cans for dedicated hunting guns that are both already threaded 5/8-24 and ready to roll.

I would personally say that the Scythe-Ti has the best sound to weight ratio available. It’s quieter than the AB Raptor 8, Ultra 7 Gen 2, Banish Backcountry and Hyperion K. All while being lighter. This is on my 18” 6 CM.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I was strongly considering the Wolf Hunter or S-Ti also but the LPM was in stock at the time.


One thing that I don’t see mentioned a lot with the Rokstok is how great it feels in the hand to carry. Especially compared to the chunky Bravo

This pic is before the UM short bolt and new bottom metal

That was the first thing my wife said as well. She mentioned that with the 20" barrel and the grip texture, it's the best stock to field carry she's used. She has two RokStoks on order now...

She's 5'8" and 115 lbs. She mentioned that shooting this .243 in a RokStok felt a lot closer to shooting her .223 with recoil management and seeing her hits on gongs.



Also, shooting with glasses is not an issue in case anyone was worried about the stock shape and glasses.

 

[Formidilosus]

I've worked on this quite a bit for the last decade plus. In field practice on targets while moving back and forth and side to side. There is zero time discrepancy between building either position and getting the gun on target with proper practice.

I neither care to argue about it or change your technique as it is mostly irrelevant for the vast majority of shooters, however in the world of shooting- other than maybe pistol grip and stance; the difference in dynamic shooting performance (speed and hits) between classic offhand and 3-gun techniques is probably the most validated and tested thing that exists.
Whether it is moving shooter and stationary target; stationary shooter and moving target, moving shooter and moving target, stationary shooter and stationary target while being timed (hit factor scoring); running game shooting (European driven game), multi gun/USPSA, static timed drills, etc. there is no version when actually measured and tested in large data sets that a classic offhand technique wins.

Follow up shots are just as quick as well depending on chambering of the rifle (6mm and below generally speaking),

Yeah no. If they are just as quick, it’s because you are rack slow. Just using a semi auto 223 is on average 150% to 175% different at 50 yards on an 8” plate for split times. As the target gets closer the difference in speed for same hits gets much larger.

even with several side steps/forward and back steps, staying in position and target in the scope. We practice this with targets placed 25-150 yards and spread apart roughly 270 degrees (like a Pac-Man shape shooting away from designated setup area) for dynamic movement. It's much different than going from "station to station" like a 3 gun comp

I’m not sure your experience with multi gun, but a shooting multiple targets in an arc while stationary or moving is extremely common.

and simulates a charging or close moving animal who's been wounded.

A person hoping around doesn’t simulate an animal charging or moving. Completely and totally different mechanics and route functions.

The trap shooter stance works great for that even though the vast majority of folks cannot hit 12" targets past 80ish yards on average using that stance.

The vast majority of people can’t hit a 12” plate offhand at 80 yards with any technique. Shot gunners are terrible rifle shooters without retraining- everything about a shotgun (save stance/grip) and skeet/trap/etc is exactly opposite of what is required to hit with a rifle.

Using or looking at shot gunners for a determiner of a rifle or pistol technique differences is a poisoned pool.

They switch to traditional and the hits start coming.

It’s not that they switch, it’s that you give them training (regardless of how little) that didn’t have before.

A first shot hit on a charging animal is way better than a miss with maybe a faster follow up shot and potentially better control. By then you're normally tossing the rifle and pulling sidearm if practiced.

Charging animals are close, yes? The difference between the two techniques in group size with shooters equally skill in both techniques is about 2 MOA. At 25 yards is .5 inch untimed. The moment it is timed, control of the rifle has the largest effect on first shot hit times and split times.

Recoil control can be much better with the trap shooter grip and stance with practice. Most will find that with practice the traditional grip and stance can have recoil controlled very well also.

There is no version where holding the back of the rifle only has more control on the lever than holding both ends.

Maintaining that body/shooting position while moving is very easy and stable with practice. Can be awkward for some at first, but once they switch they rarely go back. My thought process is always, best chance at a first round hit on a close animal, traditional is very successful compared to trap shooter in live drills.

As stated above- in massive data sets the difference in pure precision between the two techniques is about 2 MOA untimed on average. The moment a shot timer is bright out and targets are used for points, the deference is extremely large in favor of the 3-gun technique.

I don't "love" the popular 3 gun stuff because it doesn't accurately simulate a charging animal/danger close shot. At least in general in our niche hunting application.

I’m unsure what you mean by that? Nothing short of a charging animal or charging target that moves semi erratically simulates a charging animal. The technique that has the higher hit factor from a ready position to hits on target, will have a faster time to hit than one that has a lower hit factor.

Hit rates on moving targets like coyotes, hogs, rabbits, and squirrels all show much higher hit rates with traditional stance over trap shooter stance. This has been field proven over the last 10-12 years with over 300 shooters of all skill levels.

There is no control mechanism with that simple statement. Unless you are measuring and validating the exact same shooters in speed and accuracy on the flat range in both techniques compared to world class- that is you have a large and deep validated set of metrics for world class 3-gun technique and and large and deep validated set of metrics for world class classical technique shooting the exact same standards, you do not know what is expected of performance.


I have no idea who your experience base is with it, how they were trained, their real skill level, or anything else; however in the world where 1 point on a target and a hundredth a second means the difference between winning or losing- the difference between the classical grip and stance is a reduction of 20-100% (or more) performance compared to a modern “aggressive” stance and grip.

A simple consistent truism that has proven to be correct repeatedly when it comes to speed and accuracy combined- is nothing that performs “worse” in correctly controlled metrics on a flat range, performs better in real life. A worse performing technique does not (with only a few extreme exceptions) get magically “better” the worse the conditions are and the more stress is placed on the person.

I was planning to get some video showing this position with realistic dynamic movement (not moving from "station to station") but simply shooting at simulated moving targets, good footwork and maintaining targets in the scope. Folks are usually quite surprised and giddy going from military training grips to a position they can actually hit shit with.

The 3-gun is far from military training. Except very recently save for a very small subset of the military. The military until a couple of years ago taught/used the classical offhand or some version of it for any kind of shooting outside “CQB”, if they were taught offhand at all- unless it was close range with a subpar stance and grip there as well.

 

[Formidilosus]

What would you say, in your experience, is the general "best sound to length/weight ratio" for a mountain hunting gun with an 18-20" barrel? This is an open question to others as well @Formidilosus @Marbles @NSI

I need two more cans for dedicated hunting guns that are both already threaded 5/8-24 and ready to roll.

Of what is currently available- CGS Hyperion K.

 

[Formidilosus]

I would personally say that the Scythe-Ti has the best sound to weight ratio available. It’s quieter than the AB Raptor 8, Ultra 7 Gen 2, Banish Backcountry and Hyperion K. All while being lighter. This is on my 18” 6 CM.

That hasn’t been my experience side by side with them. We have had quite a few Scytg-Ti’s right next to AB’s, TBAC 5/7, DD STi, a d CGS Hyperion K’s- from 50 yards behind the shooter, directly to the side from a couple of feet to 100 yards, to right front of the muzzle to 200 yards down range- I believe all have preferred the sound and tone of the CGS Hyperion K and AB with the reflex.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I neither care to argue about it or change your technique as it is mostly irrelevant for the vast majority of shooters

Very true on vast majority of shooters... And fair enough, not "argumentative" from my side at all btw, just sharing what I've learned in what I suppose would be a small sample size in the grand scheme of things.

 

[NSI]

What would you say, in your experience, is the general "best sound to length/weight ratio" for a mountain hunting gun with an 18-20" barrel? This is an open question to others as well @Formidilosus @Marbles @NSI

I need two more cans for dedicated hunting guns that are both already threaded 5/8-24 and ready to roll.

My Scythe Ti is as perfect of a can as I've owned. Short enough, quiet enough, reduces recoil enough, inexpensive enough. Have shot back to back with the Hyp K and the increase in sound and recoil suppression are both obvious. Would only consider the ribbed cans as a serious backcountry hunting alternative.

-J

 

[NSI]

That hasn’t been my experience side by side with them. We have had quite a few Scytg-Ti’s right next to AB’s, TBAC 5/7, DD STi, a d CGS Hyperion K’s- from 50 yards behind the shooter, directly to the side from a couple of feet to 100 yards, to right front of the muzzle to 200 yards down range- I believe all have preferred the sound and tone of the CGS Hyperion K and AB with the reflex.

I guess I finally found something on which we disagree forgive me sensei.

-J

 

[NSI]

I have seen the opposite to be true. At 100 yards with AR grip most shooters are missing a 12" plate more than they hit it. Generally speaking.

Oh yeah, most are missing the whole deal at 100yards off hand for sure. I just meant I'm not, and our class wasn't in June, after training. Sorry for the unclear post.

-J

 

[HuntHarder]

Scythe=Ti sounds better to me over the hyperion

 

[StupidLightweight]

My Rokstocked Tikka .243 with 18.5-inch barrel wears a Diligent Defense Wolf Hunter. It's my favorite can at the moment. It's damn quiet. There may be better ones out there, but this one works great.

 

[atmat]

Everyone I know who has used both the Scythe-Ti and the Hyp-K seems to prefer the Scythe.

I have tried neither

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Everyone I know who has used both the Scythe-Ti and the Hyp-K seems to prefer the Scythe.

I have tried neither

I believe that you had the Hyperion K @Marbles , correct? What was your impression between my Scythe and yours on your .243?

Edit to add: I think it was my friend Brian who had the Hyperion K, not Marbles. I shot it back to back on my 18” 6 CM and to me the K had a distinct “pop” that the Scythe did not. Without hearing pro, the Scythe was more comfortable to me, fwiw. Funny how it must sound different on different gun setups, as per Forms experience.