Rokstok Lite

[gtriple]

What about them?

I believe both of them still run the Ultra 5. And they’ve always had good things to say about it.

 

[HighUintas]

Then go with that. That means the UM OTB is already at 129 dB at the ear….



Not one person I know that owns a UL 5 that I shoot with (which is a lot), is happy with it. It was louder and more obnoxious to everyone then any other can there- including the first UM OTB version which metered at 144dB.

Opinion follows: It is the loudest, most obnoxious suppressor that is supposedly hearing safe on the market. It possibly could be a frequency thing, but it absolutely requires hearing protection when shooting it- most I know won’t even hunt with theirs anymore for that reason. The UL 7 and 9, Magnus’s, etc. are good cans- the UL 5… no.


Regardless if that is the performance you guys want for a hunting, have at it. But in no way is that “optimized”.

I do not want an ultra 5 nor do I want any suppressor that is barely hearing safe. I'd like one that is fairly quiet so there's a bit of a cushion.

But we can't say there's not a single X inch suppressor on the market that is hearing safe, when we're referring to hearing safe being the accepted OSHA limit of 140 and the measurement methods of all the companies either not differing wildly or not being known at all. TBACs summit and what they state on their site is the only source I know of that seems to follow a standard, so I'm not going to say their claims are BS because I measured something different not using a standard method.

 

[Formidilosus]

I believe both of them still run the Ultra 5. And they’ve always had good things to say about it.

Have you used a UL 5 ext to other cans? Or is your stance on this is “but the Exo guys like them”?

In any case, I believe it’s only one of them that uses a UL 5, and I don’t believe there’s much experience with other cans. Compared to a muzzle brake- a UL 5 is great. But so is a blast diverter. I believe every S2H class that has had a UL 5, the shooters beside it have worn double ear protection- literally no other can causes people do that.


A short and incomplete list of the internet’s favorite cans, that no one at any S2H class (for an example) has liked being next to, and have went out of their way to tell us so-

1). UL 5

2). Scythe with brake- and quite a few haven’t liked them in standard configuration either.

3). Basically any true flow through can, but personified by OSS.

4). Lots don’t like DD STi’s and the “ting” they produce.


Cans that those same people have stated that they thought sounded great-

1). OPS Inc, AEM.

2). CGS Hyperion and Hyperion K.

3). AB Raptor 8 and 10’s

4). Basically any full size 338 can.

 

[gtriple]

Also, I’m not asking for a suppressor to be completely hearing safe at high rates or volume of shooting. I just want one that does just enough when shooting a few shots outdoors in moderate succession (2-3 rounds).

 

[Formidilosus]

I do not want an ultra 5 nor do I want any suppressor that is barely hearing safe. I'd like one that is fairly quiet so there's a bit of a cushion.

But we can't say there's not a single X inch suppressor on the market that is hearing safe, when we're referring to hearing safe being the accepted OSHA limit of 140 and the measurement methods of all the companies either not differing wildly or not being known at all. TBACs summit and what they state on their site is the only source I know of that seems to follow a standard, so I'm not going to say their claims are BS because I measured something different not using a standard method.

Have you shot with a UL 5, or been next to one being used?

 

[gtriple]

Have you used a UL 5 ext to other cans? Or is your stance on this is “but the Exo guys like them”?

In any case, I believe it’s only one of them that uses a UL 5, and I don’t believe there’s much experience with other cans. Compared to a muzzle brake- a UL 5 is great. But so is a blast diverter. I believe every S2H class that has had a UL 5, the shooters beside it have worn double ear protection- literally no other can causes people do that.


A short and incomplete list of the internet’s favorite cans, that no one at any S2H class (for an example) has liked being next to, and have went out of their way to tell us so-

1). UL 5

2). Scythe with brake- and quite a few haven’t liked them in standard configuration either.

3). Basically any true flow through can, but personified by OSS.

4). Lots don’t like DD STi’s and the “ting” they produce.


Cans that those same people have stated that they thought sounded great-

1). OPS Inc, AEM.

2). CGS Hyperion and Hyperion K.

3). AB Raptor 8 and 10’s

4). Basically any full size 338 can.

When you are talking about shooting at the S2H course, are you talking about a situation where one person is only shooting a couple of shots separated from the group? Or are you talking about shooting multiple shots side by side with someone else?

 

[Formidilosus]

When you are talking about shooting at the S2H course, are you talking about a situation where one person is only shooting a couple of shots separated from the group? Or are you talking about shooting multiple shots side by side with someone else?

Does it matter in context? Suppressors are supposed to suppress- generally thought of as below the level that causes discomfort at the least. Yet one can causes everyone to treat it as if it were a bare muzzle rifle.

Again- what is your experience with a UL 5- or any of these extremely short cans on center fire rifles?

 

[gtriple]

Does it matter in context? Suppressors are supposed to suppress- generally thought of as below the level that causes discomfort at the least. Yet one can causes everyone to treat it as if it were a bare muzzle rifle.

Again- what is your experience with a UL 5- or any of these extremely short cans on center fire rifles?

Yes, it matters a ton.

I didn’t buy the Ultra 5 as a solution to volume shooting. When I’m practicing with it, I use ear protection.

Use case means everything when selecting a suppressor. Which is why I have an Ultra 5, Ultra 7, and Ultra 9. As well as the Scythe on the way. They all fill different roles.

Also, standing “next” to someone while shooting at a course isn’t the same as a hunting situation. It would be very rare for us to ever be in-line with the shooter while hunting. At a minimum, we are behind them.

I’m not trying to attack y'all's suppressor. I think it’s a very cool product. And knowing me, I’ll probably end up buying one. But acting like some of the most popular suppressors on the market, including on Rokslide, are not better for certain tasks is misleading.

 

[gtriple]

Does it matter in context? Suppressors are supposed to suppress- generally thought of as below the level that causes discomfort at the least. Yet one can causes everyone to treat it as if it were a bare muzzle rifle.

Again- what is your experience with a UL 5- or any of these extremely short cans on center fire rifles?

Sorry, I didn’t answer your 2nd part. I have shot my Ultra 5 on my two 16” 223s, 18” 6.5CM and 7PRC”, a couple 21” 6.5CM, and 22” 6.5PRC. The only one that I wasn’t happy with the performance without ear protection for hunting was the 7PRC. But I’m barely okay using the Ultra 7 with it either. I’ve probably got around two thousand rounds through it, mostly with 223 and 6.5CM.

Edit: I forgot a 16” 308 and a 22” 7RM.

 

[Formidilosus]

Yes, it matters a ton.

I didn’t buy the Ultra 5 as a solution to volume shooting. When I’m practicing with it, I use ear protection.

Use case means everything when selecting a suppressor. Which is why I have an Ultra 5, Ultra 7, and Ultra 9. As well as the Scythe on the way. They all fill different roles.

Also, standing “next” to someone while shooting at a course isn’t the same as a hunting situation. It would be very rare for us to ever be in-line with the shooter while hunting. At a minimum, we are behind them.

I’m not trying to attack y'all's suppressor. I think it’s a very cool product. And knowing me, I’ll probably end up buying one. But acting like some of the most popular suppressors on the market, including on Rokslide, are not better for certain tasks is misleading.

What are you talking about?



This is what you posted that started me asking questions-

Looks great. I kinda was hoping that the suppressor y’all were working on was an UL, ultrashort .224 or 6mm suppressor. Something optimized for 22CM and 6UM. I can’t see myself buying a heavier suppressor than what I’ve got now.

You stated you were hoping for an “optimized” can for 22CM and 6 UM, then when asked said you thought the Banish Speed K Ti was “optimized” for the 22CM and 6UM…. Yeah no. In no way shape or form will a can like that be remotely hearing safe in 22CM and 6UM’s- not even close.

What you are saying you want, and what you think you want don’t line up. I couldn’t care less if you love the UL 5. I literally wrote in my response that addressed the UL 5- “opinion follows”. What you are writing that you want is not what anyone I am around wants for a hunting suppressor, far from it. There are uses for cans like that, but it is not this use case.

I think you absolutely should get a Speed K Ti or other similar can- Wyo Arms makes an 4” “suppressor”- and put it on a 6 UM and let the forum know how that works out.

 

[gtriple]

What are you talking about?



This is what you posted that started me asking questions-




You stated you were hoping for an “optimized” can for 22CM and 6 UM, then when asked said you thought the Banish Speed K Ti was “optimized” for the 22CM and 6UM…. Yeah no. In no way shape or form will a can like that be remotely hearing safe in 22CM and 6UM’s- not even close.

What you are saying you want, and what you think you want don’t line up. I couldn’t care less if you love the UL 5. I literally wrote in my response that addressed the UL 5- “opinion follows”. What you are writing that you want is not what anyone I am around wants for a hunting suppressor, far from it. There are uses for cans like that, but it is not this use case.

I think you absolutely should get a Speed K Ti or other similar can- Wyo Arms makes an 4” “suppressor”- and put it on a 6 UM and let the forum know how that works out.

“Optimized” as in: as minimal as possible with making those calibers hearing safe in a backpack-hunting scenario.

I’m not arguing about the need or the desire for the can yall are developing. It’s going to be awesome, just like every other product that UM has come out with or been associated with. It just wasn’t what I expected.

I appreciate the back and forth though. It’s helped me learn more about reflex cans, which I had totally written off prior to this. Now I’m gna have to add one to the collection.

 

[Formidilosus]

“Optimized” as in: as minimal as possible with making those calibers hearing safe in a backpack-hunting scenario.

It will be interesting to see if this can will be sub 140dB at the ear from a 6UM. My guess is a 4” can in front, will need to be 2” diameter to be truly hearing safe- maybe not even then.

I’m not arguing about the need or the desire for the can yall are developing. It’s going to be awesome, just like every other product that UM has come out with or been associated with. It just wasn’t what I expected.

I appreciate the back and forth though. It’s helped me learn more about reflex cans, which I had totally written off prior to this. Now I’m gna have to add one to the collection.

If you get one, I will be interested to hear (grin) what you think. It’s a specific can, for a specific purpose so will be interesting.

 

[grappling_hook]

Have you used a UL 5 ext to other cans? Or is your stance on this is “but the Exo guys like them”?

In any case, I believe it’s only one of them that uses a UL 5, and I don’t believe there’s much experience with other cans. Compared to a muzzle brake- a UL 5 is great. But so is a blast diverter. I believe every S2H class that has had a UL 5, the shooters beside it have worn double ear protection- literally no other can causes people do that.


A short and incomplete list of the internet’s favorite cans, that no one at any S2H class (for an example) has liked being next to, and have went out of their way to tell us so-

1). UL 5

2). Scythe with brake- and quite a few haven’t liked them in standard configuration either.

3). Basically any true flow through can, but personified by OSS.

4). Lots don’t like DD STi’s and the “ting” they produce.


Cans that those same people have stated that they thought sounded great-

1). OPS Inc, AEM.

2). CGS Hyperion and Hyperion K.

3). AB Raptor 8 and 10’s

4). Basically any full size 338 can.

Gotten a chance to experiment with the PTR Vent1 yet? On paper, it's ahead of the game for a sub-16oz suppressor.

 

[HighUintas]

Have you shot with a UL 5, or been next to one being used?

No, but does it matter? I don't care how many people say it's painful or discomforting or annoying or whatever to listen to. Pain, discomfort, enjoyment are all subjective and are not measurements. Hearing pain can start way below 140 depending on the person.

You keep talking about cans being truly hearing safe below 140db but then only stating how awful the ultra 5 is to listen to and not backing that up with actual data.

 

[Formidilosus]

No, but does it matter?

Yea, it does. That’s exactly the point. You are arguing something you don’t have experience with. As a suppressor, the UL 5 is loud.

I don't care how many people say it's painful or discomforting or annoying or whatever to listen to. Pain, discomfort, enjoyment are all subjective and are not measurements. Hearing pain can start way below 140 depending on the person

That’s exactly the point. As I stated earlier- the UL 5 is barely hearing safe in a 308, and it may be a frequency thing. Hearing pain generally points to damage.

You keep talking about cans being truly hearing safe below 140db but then only stating how awful the ultra 5 is to listen to and not backing that up with actual data.

What is your aim here? I have literally stated repeatedly that my opinion is that the UL 5 can barely be called a suppressor. That a lot of others- including one of the owners of this site who thought it great until he actually used it, also have the same opinion.


This is the numbers for a UL5-




As I wrote earlier- BARELY hearing safe on a 308win, not remotely hearing safe on a 6 UM.



So what are looking for?

 

[Plague]

I’m hopeful for something like the Silencer Central Banish Speed K Ti. Just not from SC…

Woof. I have a friend with one of those. I would describe it as a flash hider that makes the gun sound more annoying.

 

[gtriple]

Woof. I have a friend with one of those. I would describe it as a flash hider that makes the gun sound more annoying.

That’s good to know. The size is what is appealing.

 

[DangerRanger]

I shot beside a ultra 5 on a 26” gun at my last match and it was loud as hell

 

[8nbait]

Is this thread about a suppressor or a stock?

 

[HighUintas]

Yea, it does. That’s exactly the point. You are arguing something you don’t have experience with. As a suppressor, the UL 5 is loud.

I'm not saying it's not loud. I don't doubt that it is. It doesn't matter that I haven't listened to it being shot because subjective feelings and opinions don't matter for determining if it's hearing safe. Measurements do and I have the ability to read, analyze, and critically think about data and measurement methods.

You make statements such as "there's no X inch hearing safe suppressor on the market". Have you measured every suppressor's performance that is on the market? I'd be willing to bet TBAC has measured more in their summit papers.

You can't invalidate my statements because I haven't listened to the suppressor.

That’s exactly the point. As I stated earlier- the UL 5 is barely hearing safe in a 308, and it may be a frequency thing. Hearing pain generally points to damage.

Hearing pain threshold often starts at 120-130. That's a wide range.

"Barely hearing safe in a 308"... That is what I mean. TBACs measurements state it's at 133 for a 308. That's not barely hearing safe. You're implying that their measurements are incorrect or they're being misleading or dishonest about them. Why is TBACs data wrong and yours is right?

What is your aim here? I have literally stated repeatedly that my opinion is that the UL 5 can barely be called a suppressor. That a lot of others- including one of the owners of this site who thought it great until he actually used it, also have the same opinion.

I'm trying to hold the statements that are being made to an objective and transparent standard, that you always promote.

Opinions don't matter if we're talking about whether something is hearing safe based on oshas 140db exposure level.

You're using appeal to authority (owner of the site's opinion) ?

This is the numbers for a UL5-

View attachment 850478


As I wrote earlier- BARELY hearing safe on a 308win, not remotely hearing safe on a 6 UM.



So what are looking for?

What are your measurement standards? I believe you stayed in your post on that prototype that they're comparative measurements and we're not done to any spec, except the milspec ML position, right ? Why is this correct and TBACs is not? They give the standards they're measuring against.