Rokslide Culture Question

[Schmo]

Yes, please leave politics somewhere else. Lets have at least one place without it.

Amen. Leave those for the political threads in general discussion!

 

[Thegman]

The engineer mind in me agrees, but theres also a part that says for most of the animals hunted at the ranges most hunters should shoot......throw a dart blindfolded and youll hit something that will absolutely work.

I feel like knife steel is this x10000000000

Oh the new FG53gx1046&%000000000! steel just came out! Im throwing everything else away. SMH

If I'd figured this out earlier, I wouldn't have 50 knives.

Still working on figuring out the rifle/cartridge part...

 

[CMF]

Personally, in my opinion, watching impacts can have a big effect on game recovery, regardless of distance of the shot.
Seeing a bullet land in the paunch or on a fringe can lead to a rapid followup shot that might not have otherwise been taken if a guy thought he landed a good one.

I certainly agree it can help in recovery. I just think it's harder to see when you're only shooting 100yds. Maybe I'm wrong and just haven't shot enough with suppressed small calibers. But I've been sitting next to my kids shooting, and I can't hardly watch an impact in my binos. I feel like at 100yds you can miss it just blinking at the shot whereas longer shots you have time to react/blink from the shot and focus again on the target.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Amen. Leave those for the political threads in general discussion!

Or the 24 hour dumpster fire forum.

 

[Marbles]

Or the 24 hour dumpster fire forum.

Hey, just because some of us "camp" by dumpsters doesn't mean you should look down on us. Word of advice, dig supper out before lighting the camp fire.

 

[cal30_sniper]

You're wrong about who the worst poster on RS is...

Every forum has one. So much time posting fluff you wonder how they even have time left over to do all the things they post about.
*chuckle*

 

[wyogoat]

 

[Marbles]

View attachment 962729

Even funnier because most of the chamberings Gunwerks offers are magnums and then there is this thread https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/who-is-gunwerks-target-customer.425585/

 

[Dust Rider]

The crazy ones at any age really are the most fun. *chuckle*

Crazy in the head = crazy in bed!
Stay away from barrel racers!

 

[wyosam]

Crazy in the head = crazy in bed!
Stay away from barrel racers!

If you really want things to get spicy, tell the barrel racer you just woke up next to that you want to borrow her truck, trailer, and a couple horses to take elk hunting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nm.otter]

I'll wager a dancer against a barrel racer...

 

[RockAndSage]

I'll trade you a dancer for a barrel racer...

 

[Dust Rider]

If you really want things to get spicy, tell the barrel racer you just woke up next to that you want to borrow her truck, trailer, and a couple horses to take elk hunting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And answer honest when asked “Does my dually make my ass look small?”

 

[BCDJR]

I want to start out by saying I really appreciate this forum - without it I never would have understood the importance of a drop tested scope and would still have Leupold VX6HDs on all my rifles instead of the nightforces they currently wear. Also was drawn to the 223 thread and am totally on board with prioritizing bullet construction/performance over all else.

Having said that, what is up with constantly being attacked if you choose to shoot something other than a .22 or .243 caliber cartridge?

Or being told you don’t shoot enough or shouldn’t be hunting if you don’t hunt with a small caliber or want to buy a gunwerks rifle.

@mxgsfmdpx is one of the worst, but there are others who are just as bad. It reminds me of the long range hunting website and their obsession with sherman cartridges and hammer bullets.

I love my 223 and 6cm and shoot them a lot. Its crazy to me that someone who likes to take their 280 AI or 6.5 prc elk hunting because they appreciate the high bc bullets and their performance with wind is going to get ridiculed and told they don’t shoot enough and shouldn’t be hunting.

If an eldm in a 223 or 22 CM is awesome, isn’t an eldm in a 6.5 PRC just more of a good thing?

Anyway, its been interesting moving from a spectator to a participant and I am probably going to go back to spectating and hopefully find some good deals in the classifieds

I think this could be one the best hunting forum on the internet if a handful of people could tone it down. Thanks again for all those who have made positive contributions and comments. Not looking to stir things up, just wanted to share a humble observation from a nobody on the internet

I knew soon as you posted this the….BAT SIGNAL went out. Hang in there man !

 

[TheGDog]

Engineers are so annoying...Bunch of guys with bachelors degrees thinking they are smarter than everybody else.

No degrees here, just natural gifts for complex abstract thinking, attn to detail yada yada.

 

[TheGDog]

You would be better off leaving politics and name calling out ot it. Using the term "TDS'er" is you demonstrating that you are no different than the "normies" on positions you hold dear. Rather than rational engagement, you resort to slandering the other side. That is human, and certainly not unique to you; but it cuts the legs out from under your claim of being somehow different.

It is very interesting how the human brain sections behaviors off based on context. With training, in certain contexts, people can be exceptionally rational; but removed from the trained context, the typical pseudorational behaviors return. Part of that is because the training isn't changing our nature, rather it is laying a different behavior pattern over the top of it.

Negative.. I just talk "colorfully" when not in a business setting.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I want to start out by saying I really appreciate this forum - without it I never would have understood the importance of a drop tested scope and would still have Leupold VX6HDs on all my rifles instead of the nightforces they currently wear. Also was drawn to the 223 thread and am totally on board with prioritizing bullet construction/performance over all else.

Having said that, what is up with constantly being attacked if you choose to shoot something other than a .22 or .243 caliber cartridge?

Or being told you don’t shoot enough or shouldn’t be hunting if you don’t hunt with a small caliber or want to buy a gunwerks rifle.

@mxgsfmdpx is one of the worst, but there are others who are just as bad. It reminds me of the long range hunting website and their obsession with sherman cartridges and hammer bullets.

I love my 223 and 6cm and shoot them a lot. Its crazy to me that someone who likes to take their 280 AI or 6.5 prc elk hunting because they appreciate the high bc bullets and their performance with wind is going to get ridiculed and told they don’t shoot enough and shouldn’t be hunting.

If an eldm in a 223 or 22 CM is awesome, isn’t an eldm in a 6.5 PRC just more of a good thing?

Anyway, its been interesting moving from a spectator to a participant and I am probably going to go back to spectating and hopefully find some good deals in the classifieds

I think this could be one the best hunting forum on the internet if a handful of people could tone it down. Thanks again for all those who have made positive contributions and comments. Not looking to stir things up, just wanted to share a humble observation from a nobody on the internet

Appreciate this post.

I believe we’re on the steep part of an evolutionary curve here and still working things out but just at the base of this curve.

Like you I appreciate the body of work that has occurred in this forum. I think it’s the most progressive forum in ‘space’.

But at 80,000’ human nature still occurs. We grab onto new knowledge and push it as far as we can one way then ultimately end up somewhere above that or in the middle as other factors layer in to what we prefer for margin or splash watch or what have you. It’s human nature, to open a can of worms and then start to solve for all the problems each worm offers to get it back in the can.

I mean, in the spirit of this thread, terminal ballistics. Which is still about 5 levels behind our inflight ballistics development and understanding. ‘At this point’, It’s much more difficult to learn the differences between the air variables we solve for vs the swim variables we talk ad nauseam about as one is solving for variables of air which we have advanced tremendously and where the bullet is the constant, and the other, where the medium can be represented as constant (gel) and bullet is the variable.

We haven’t pushed ourselves ‘yet’ to figure out the latter.

But many of our minds, that never seem to rest easy and always question and try to solve for...we get further one step at a time despite the history dragging us two steps back at every turn. So it’s merely a ‘pause’ on the curve imo.

When you look at the variables of the bullets, from energy, rpm, the units of measure being work, whether ft/lbs, psi, and then understand it to the variable sd ie; loss of mass in shrapnel which is pushed out by rpm, psi, ft/lbs etc. We don’t current measure this stuff in gel, we don’t measure velocity in gel or the sd reduction to start giving us the baselines of known performers for game classes we hunt etc.

We see the 556 nitro express thread, we see the energy irrelevance thread, we see what 80 ft/lbs per inch vs 240 ft/lbs per inch on deers asses but only speak on it from a preschool level so to speak. No offence intended. We talk about visible splash at distance on misses differences that would correlate to all this ‘work’ potential. We don’t understand even if 200,000 rpm is a factor vs 400,000 rpm? In terms of spreading that sd reduction (shrapnel/grenade factor) in the distances of swim of the game we chase.

We are still aways from taking this to the next level. Every discussion we have like this takes us further.

As I see it we need to learn how to measure the work (swim) and starting with sd reduction and energy reduction, this will allow us to pay attention to rpm and ‘if’ it plays a role and how much of a role ‘if’ it even does, and or, ‘if’ psi also a work unit that makes sense to explain the terminal we see related to the other factors we tie together? Or if ke is still the overriding unit? I mean we know we start with 52,000 psi (ar factory) or 62,000 psi (typical bolt action) but also have that translated to ke from bullet...but we don’t back math that to psi beyond the explosion in the chamber yet there’s an explosion at the other end also. To me it would be foolish not to include the rpm and psi in the study to see if they are better or inclusive measures, if not overriding measures to the status quo?

It’s going to be a process and one step at a time. Easy button is start with measuring velocity and sd change through gel as that will automatically produce a terminal coefficient for that impact velocity range. And expand from there.

We are simply trying to kick the can down the road here in all of these discussions. To see the future based on everything we’ve absorbed and witnesssed to this point and then turn it into words to our peers when we need to turn it into numbers.

Until we start taking steps forward you will have a hard time convincing me that my preferred formula of over 120 gr, <.25 sd, tipped match rapid expansion, at moderate velocities isn’t the best of what works for me to this point for all the variables listed above including splash etc. And .5 bc or greater of course layers into my Inflight needs to choose my terminal distance needs haha. And of course while understanding basic limitations of shooters using what’s available typically 2300-3300 fps reasonably modern bc projectiles with field shooting accuracy, live animal, and field conditions limitations = 0-600 lands in the radar of most kills by far.....then....

In the end if you just need an easy button get a 6.5 manbun, slap a rainbow bumper sticker on your truck, and run eldm’s.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Long ago I lost any ability to look at a cartridge or headstamp as a means to choose for hunting goals for game intended. I only start with bullet and get its sd, bc, construction type and I can work out from there expected terminal performance for any game intended and how far any case may give it. Boils down to the numbers of the starting bullet then trickles from there.

The 77gr tmk at .219 sd for example. We know what it does now by 100x from 556 nitro express thread. To me that’s marginal but you know what I like above. If I didn’t have a 120 gr .25 sd min I’m sure I’d be cool with it and if I used it no doubt I’d know when not to shoot lol. But 88gr eldm hello! Other than my 120 gr personal choice limit it has it all for me and I’d trust it for anything I’d do. 22 arc you bet, but for other reasons I like a bit more fat, pun intended. I’d rather be a bit slower and fatter even though in most situations the 88 may out drt my choices but given my experience so far that would be a slim margin lol. Our drt ratio is more than awesome. So I don’t argue these even smaller than I tend to go as I understand the formula. And in the end that’s what it is....a formula. For game intended. I like drt. I’d rather package most of meat all the time and walk up to everything. Rather than package all the meat most of the time and okay trailing games. I’d rather marginal placement do maximum damage for slowing em down, etc. Vs marginal placement slowing them down even less with a more marginal formula, give me grenades that go deep enough regardless.

Numbers, the bullet, it all starts there. Diameter or headstamp is way down the list from there.

If anyone takes a minute to take all the bullets we know and live on this forum and just runs sd numbers alone you’ll see a pattern. You can start there for setting your limitations for rapid expansion type performance. Not hard to see it needs to be between .2 and .25 like the mid 70 gr .22 cal. Now go run the rest and see most are .25 or higher. You can’t fack up if you pattern the knowns on that number alone, and get construction right of course then just use in it’s impact velocity range and gtg. .219 is light for me, we chase elk and moose and don’t care about broadside so .25 and up is just our margin. I’d make that work easily but it would make me a bit more selective on things out there that once moving up from it I wouldn’t worry one bit.

We put better numbers to all that and it will easily be explained. Without the need for endless debates, cyberspace wars, and pictures of deers asses shot on Friday nights.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I see this mentioned a lot, but I don't think you guys realize how many hunters out there aren't on forums or keeping up with trends in new calibers, cartridges, etc. and mainstream content makers aren't out there on the outdoor channel using 223's for big game. None of my friends or fil that hunts keep up with hunt forums, they all shoot 270, 30-06, and 300wm. 243, 6.5's and 7mm-08 are their youth guns. It's just a different culture. In the east, most people are shooting 100-200yds max, so no one is worried about watching their impacts or even spending a ton of time practicing. You don't need a ton of practice to make a 150-yard shot.
Proof in the form of pictures is different than being in the field with others and seeing those cartridges work. I was skeptical at first, having never shot smaller than 270. But, after seeing enough info, I decided to try the 6.5creedmore. After my son shot an Oryx, I have a lot more confidence in it.
I also don't see the point of shooting something smaller like a 223, if I'm getting so little recoil with a 6.5.
Is there really a reason to shoot a 223 if:
You already have a 270 or other
You're only shooting a couple of hundred yards. (watching impacts don't matter)
You're only going to practice a couple of times a year(ammo cost doesn't matter)

And exactly why I yammer on about pushing terminal ballistics past the point barely on the curve we are somewhat stuck at. Much easier to explain the formula by numbers than what we have been doing all this time.

If you get this variable bullet stuff measured out and boiled down it will be 1000x more beneficial to all shooters of live things on this impossible spinny ball. From varmints to elephants. All subjectivity removed. Military and law enforcement included. Minimum thresholds will be easily seen based on known actual performers. But in numbers instead of just actual trial and error known performers. Change the game. First through the wall always gets bloody.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

No degrees here, just natural gifts for complex abstract thinking, attn to detail yada yada.

If you have to type that out, it likely isn’t true.