Rokslide Culture Question

[TaperPin]

The guys who chase crazy/pretty women are always the same guys who'll wait months for RL26 powder to be in stock then complain when their above-max loads show pressure signs in summertime. RL26 is the nutty prom queen; RL23 is stable and reliable and almost as fast if you're careful with it.

If we only wait a little longer maybe RL26 will return our txt? To be honest even at $86 a pound RL23 is at least available and you know what they say, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I hadn’t given up on RL22 when it went missing, so I’ll have to look up data for RL23.

 

[Deere_Man]

A call out thread???

I think there’s a form that you’re supposed to fill out, then send it to the moderator.

 

[Chris in TN]

If we only wait a little longer maybe RL26 will return our txt? To be honest even at $86 a pound RL23 is at least available and you know what they say, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I hadn’t given up on RL22 when it went missing, so I’ll have to look up data for RL23.

I'm trying to switch to VV powders for everything now, probably for the same reason men give up on high maintenance American women and get European brides.

(I know RL powders are Swedish, nobody has to point that out and ruin my attempt at humor)

 

[Formidilosus]

Having said that, what is up with constantly being attacked if you choose to shoot something other than a .22 or .243 caliber cartridge?

Can you please post where this happens?

People like to say this, yet when asked specifically for posts where that happened- they never can link to or reference any. I have read quite a few of your posts, and specifically with the one you reference below, and that’s not what happened at all. At this point, it just seems to be a strawman fallacy so that people can ignore what is actually said.

Or being told you don’t shoot enough or shouldn’t be hunting if you don’t hunt with a small caliber or want to buy a gunwerks rifle.

Again- please link a single post where someone told someone’s else that they shouldn’t be hunting unless they use a small caliber or want to buy a Gunwerks rifle. Now we can shortcut that, because no one has ever posted either of those things on here. So again, it’s a strawman fallacy because you don’t like that you were challenged.

@mxgsfmdpx is one of the worst, but there are others who are just as bad. It reminds me of the long range hunting website and their obsession with sherman cartridges and hammer bullets.

Your interaction with him was started negatively by you. He can be blunt, however he didn’t say anything that wasn’t true.

So- did he actually write something that was not factual; or, is it that you don’t like that he challenged what you wrote?

I love my 223 and 6cm and shoot them a lot. Its crazy to me that someone who likes to take their 280 AI or 6.5 prc elk hunting because they appreciate the high bc bullets and their performance with wind is going to get ridiculed and told they don’t shoot enough and shouldn’t be hunting.

Once again- please post a single time someone saying someone else shouldn’t hunt.

If an eldm in a 223 or 22 CM is awesome, isn’t an eldm in a 6.5 PRC just more of a good thing?

No. Because numbers in a drop chart do not tell the whole story- and that’s why he stated what he did. He is factually correct.

I think this could be one the best hunting forum on the internet if a handful of people could tone it down. Thanks again for all those who have made positive contributions and comments. Not looking to stir things up, just wanted to share a humble observation from a nobody on the internet

What you are seeing is a relatively significant percentage of the members that care more about demonstrable, objective facts- backed by large amounts of field experimentation. They in general do not care about what someone “thinks, feels, or believes” but instead what can be proven.

 

[goalie]

The "culture" is basically people realizing that less recoil = more shooting and more shooting= better shooting.

It isn't 1987 anymore. There are great smaller diameter bullets for hunting now. There are more efficient ways to deliver them.

I'll probably drop one deer this year with 45/70 just because, but it won't be any more dead than the one(s) I'll likely shoot with a 223 Wylde ULUL.

I'm pretty much all in on doing another purge, keeping one "big" 6.5 creed, and putting together a 22 arc to shoot 88's with for most everything.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

To answer your question: no one says you have to use small calibers. I hunted with a 30-06 this year. No one gave me any crap about it.

I’m apparently a member of the “small caliber tribe” yet I have three small caliber rifles (.22-250, .243, and 6.5mm Grendel) for sale on the classifieds so I can justify [to my guns and ammo budget] last night’s Tikka M690 9.3x62 purchase. Do I need it? No. Do I want it? Yes. The heart wants what the heart wants. No rhyme or reason to it. I’m not married, so I certainly don’t need to justify it to anyone else.

But if someone asked me, “Do I *need* a 9.3x62 for North American big game?” I’d say, “not at all. A .243 with the right bullet will work just fine for anything you choose to shoot.” Because, as much fun as it can be to own a small piece of field artillery, I don’t think it is necessary. Shoot what you want with what you want.

If you want to pick an argument, try arguing that a 130-grain ELDM from a .270 is clearly superior to a 120-grain ELDM from a .25-06 (or vice versa)… if you like .270 or .25-06 more, that’s just fine! No one can argue with what you like. They just take issue with a stubborn defiance of objective reality.

Or maintain that a .25-20 or .32-20 is a better choice for deer than a .223…

Or suggest to a new shooter that he *needs* a magnum for whitetails at 200 yards because once a *friend* of yours had one get away after a “perfect double-lung shot” with a .257 Roberts. If you do, I’m going to ask, “how you know it was a perfect double-lung shot if it got away?” And then someone is going to wonder how thoroughly your *friend* looked for said animal. And another person will ask how often your *friend* practices shooting. You might feel a bit bad for your *friend* after that conversation is over. But it won’t be personal. It will just be a bunch of guys on the Internet picking at the loose threads in your anecdote.

 

[Chris in TN]

last night’s Tikka M690 9.3x62 purchase. Do I need it? No. Do I want it? Yes. The heart wants what the heart wants.

I got an alert from Gunbroker last night about a Tikka 595. I didn't buy it, but, uh, yeah, I get you there.

 

[CoMulies]

I spend more time than I should on here and can’t ever recall seeing someone getting chastised for hunting elk with a 6.5 prc or 280 ai.. the prc is essentially a modern .270 ballistically with the advantage of higher BC’s. In fact, the common theme in the very frequent “Is 6.5 enough for elk” thread is yes dummy now go hunt already. The implication that people on here are saying these calibers are overkill for elk is also laughable.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I am from a different generation than most of you. I was taught by my Father and grandfather to be a hunter (and fisherman & outdoorsman too). Hunting, at least for me, is pitting my skill against what I am after. That brings me to my idea of hunting. It is not shooting animals at 1000 yards and I know that will piss off a lot of you. There is no skill involved other than shooting a gun very well. You might as well be shooting at paper targets.
I was taught that learning the habits of what I was hunting, have the skill of getting as close as I could and making a good kill were the signs of a good hunter. I remember when I started to see outdoor shows start showing long range hunting. They showed kills at 1000 yards and more. What they didn't show how many times they missed, or injured an animal or how they it was going take to get to their kill across a deep canyon.

I am a good shot and could kill an animal at 1000 yards, but IMHO it is shooting and killing, not HUNTING!

I will get my bulletproof vest on now, I am sure you will unload on me.

 

[atmat]

I am from a different generation than most of you. I was taught by my Father and grandfather to be a hunter (and fisherman & outdoorsman too). Hunting, at least for me, is pitting my skill against what I am after. That brings me to my idea of hunting. It is not shooting animals at 1000 yards and I know that will piss off a lot of you. There is no skill involved other than shooting a gun very well. You might as well be shooting at paper targets.
I was taught that learning the habits of what I was hunting, have the skill of getting as close as I could and making a good kill were the signs of a good hunter. I remember when I started to see outdoor shows start showing long range hunting. They showed kills at 1000 yards and more. What they didn't show how many times they missed, or injured an animal or how they it was going take to get to their kill across a deep canyon.

I am a good shot and could kill an animal at 1000 yards, but IMHO it is shooting and killing, not HUNTING!

I will get my bulletproof vest on now, I am sure you will unload on me.

This is not an unpopular opinion — no need to act like you’re going to be attacked.

And no one really cares if you want to shoot animals at shorter distances.

And this isn’t remotely on topic to the thread.

 

[WyldGoose]

Can you please post where this happens?

People like to say this, yet when asked specifically for posts where that happened- they never can link to or reference any. I have read quite a few of your posts, and specifically with the one you reference below, and that’s not what happened at all. At this point, it just seems to be a strawman fallacy so that people can ignore what is actually said.





Again- please link a single post where someone told someone’s else that they shouldn’t be hunting unless they use a small caliber or want to buy a Gunwerks rifle. Now we can shortcut that, because no one has ever posted either of those things on here. So again, it’s a strawman fallacy because you don’t like that you were challenged.





Your interaction with him was started negatively by you. He can be blunt, however he didn’t say anything that wasn’t true.

So- did he actually write something that was not factual; or, is it that you don’t like that he challenged what you wrote?




Once again- please post a single time someone saying someone else shouldn’t hunt.




No. Because numbers in a drop chart do not tell the whole story- and that’s why he stated what he did. He is factually correct.





What you are seeing is a relatively significant percentage of the members that care more about demonstrable, objective facts- backed by large amounts of field experimentation. They in general do not care about what someone “thinks, feels, or believes” but instead what can be proven.

This right here ^. I see this often on RS.

Someone posts actual info(without any feels)…and a certain type reads, or just scans the post, and it’s almost as if there’s an emotional filter the words travel through to get inside their brain. When they reply, they comment on a general vibe they feel they picked up on, or sometimes put words that were never actually said out there that they didn’t like or disagree with.
I spot it constantly. It’s very tiresome…

 

[CMF]

There are lots of folks on here that shoot calibers larger than .22 and 243, read their posts and interact with them and ignore the small caliber guys like @mxgsfmdpx . It's really that simple, and I am sure @mxgsfmdpx doesn't really care if you don't read his posts or not either lol.

Agree with this. I don't see it being that big of an issue on this forum. But I do see when someone asks a specific question, like, about a larger caliber gun, and guys start recommending a smaller caliber. I think more members become disengaged when you can't stay on topic.
At least there's plenty of other content besides the small caliber threads.

 

[HighUintas]

I haven't seen anyone attacked just for stating their preference of cartridge. Jokes are made, but all are in jest. Some are called out, sometimes harshly, when making statements that are obviously incorrect based on the huge amount of info on this forum like the 223 thread.

That being said, I'm not sure why anyone prefers a hard kicking big cartridge anymore when it's shown that a 223/6/6.5 is fully sufficient for big animals. Less powder, cheaper bullets, less recoil, equals more shooting and more fun. The only case I can see for going big is the use of solid copper bullets.

 

[CMF]

That being said, I'm not sure why anyone prefers a hard kicking big cartridge anymore when it's shown that a 223/6/6.5 is fully sufficient for big animals. Less powder, cheaper bullets, less recoil, equals more shooting and more fun. The only case I can see for going big is the use of solid copper bullets.

I see this mentioned a lot, but I don't think you guys realize how many hunters out there aren't on forums or keeping up with trends in new calibers, cartridges, etc. and mainstream content makers aren't out there on the outdoor channel using 223's for big game. None of my friends or fil that hunts keep up with hunt forums, they all shoot 270, 30-06, and 300wm. 243, 6.5's and 7mm-08 are their youth guns. It's just a different culture. In the east, most people are shooting 100-200yds max, so no one is worried about watching their impacts or even spending a ton of time practicing. You don't need a ton of practice to make a 150-yard shot.
Proof in the form of pictures is different than being in the field with others and seeing those cartridges work. I was skeptical at first, having never shot smaller than 270. But, after seeing enough info, I decided to try the 6.5creedmore. After my son shot an Oryx, I have a lot more confidence in it.
I also don't see the point of shooting something smaller like a 223, if I'm getting so little recoil with a 6.5.
Is there really a reason to shoot a 223 if:
You already have a 270 or other
You're only shooting a couple of hundred yards. (watching impacts don't matter)
You're only going to practice a couple of times a year(ammo cost doesn't matter)

 

[Marbles]

Agree with this. I don't see it being that big of an issue on this forum. But I do see when someone asks a specific question, like, about a larger caliber gun, and guys start recommending a smaller caliber. I think more members become disengaged when you can't stay on topic.
At least there's plenty of other content besides the small caliber threads.

Or, it is bringing up advice we wished we had received earlier (or listened to earlier).

Particularly when comments are asking broader questions about application of a certain case head.

The quoted comment above pretty much comes down to saying "don't give me anything that isn't what I want to hear."

Ask about a cartridge in a hunting context, and you will get answers for that context. Ask more specific questions, and you will get specific answers. This thread for example: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/trying-to-make-reloading-easier.426698/
I don't recall anyone bringing up going to a smaller powder column/bore diameter.

Then you get this thread: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/how-do-i-build-my-own-rifle.425245/
Which it quickly comes up that the guy dislikes recoil and is looking to build a rifle for Elk hunting. That, combined with not understanding bolt face suggests not much serious consideration has been given to his desire for a 7 PRC and recommendations to consider smaller are made.

 

[Thegman]

The guys who chase crazy/pretty women are always the same guys who'll wait months for RL26 powder to be in stock then complain when their above-max loads show pressure signs in summertime. RL26 is the nutty prom queen; RL23 is stable and reliable and almost as fast if you're careful with it.

Looking back on the "RL26" I've bought a time or two, there's so much wisdom in this analogy...

 

[Thegman]

...We do tend to call out fallacies when people say they need a larger caliber.

I think this is the main crux of the matter. Some people view having their assumptions/beliefs challenged as being "attacked". Makes productive, rational conversations difficult.

 

[atmat]

I think this is the main crux of the matter. Some people view having their assumptions/beliefs challenged as being "attacked". Makes productive, rational conversations difficult.

How dare you say that. I’m offended.

 

[bnewt3]

I have a thought. If you mostly hang around the 223 topics, youll see most of the 223 hate.

Not saying you are doing anything wrong, you are interested in what you are interested in. But its just a reality of everything. If you like Fords, you are more likely to hear Ford hate because you are in conversations about Fords. If you like Benchmade, youll hear more benchmade hate etc, etc, etc.

Edit:
Also the term "hate" is sometimes used instead of "like something else better" which is often the better way to put it.

 

[bnewt3]

Agree with this. I don't see it being that big of an issue on this forum. But I do see when someone asks a specific question, like, about a larger caliber gun, and guys start recommending a smaller caliber. I think more members become disengaged when you can't stay on topic.
At least there's plenty of other content besides the small caliber threads.

Agreed

Post will be "getting a new rifle, 270 or 280AI?"

and replies will be:
7PRC
300WSM
6.5CM
etc
etc
People answer a question that wasnt asked.