Rokslide and Kuiu

[Aron Snyder]

It was posted a few pages back on this thread.

 

[bbrown]

Kuiu has got some of the worst PR practices I have ever seen. It's not the products that drive people away from Kuiu because they make some really great stuff. It's the people running it and how they handle things. Wether it's constantly touting innovation that has no backing, or shoving transparency down your throat. The heavy moderation on their forums or them trying to keep people quite about their packs. And when you are called out on it instead of meeting the questions head on you post a blog about how awesome Kuiu is and if you were not present for the start of Kuiu you just don't understand. Kuiu would be an outstanding company if the people running it would shut their mouths and let their product sell it self, because at this point people are buying Kuiu despite the staff not because of it.

I wasn't going to post - but this sums up my thoughts and feelings exactly.

 

[todd kelly]

It does make me laugh how defensive people get over the pants/jacket they wear.

Agreed, Last time I checked Rokslide is a free forum, and no one is putting a gun to my head to be here. If you don't like the way it is run or moderated, you can go over to the Kuiu forum where everyone is happy to wait 10 months to get a pair of pants and pay big money to be guinea pig gear testers.

 

[todd kelly]

For me this really sums it up well. Kuiu has got some of the worst PR practices I have ever seen. It's not the products that drive people away from Kuiu because they make some really great stuff. It's the people running it and how they handle things. Wether it's constantly touting innovation that has no backing, or shoving transparency down your throat. The heavy moderation on their forums or them trying to keep people quite about their packs. And when you are called out on it instead of meeting the questions head on you post a blog about how awesome Kuiu is and if you were not present for the start of Kuiu you just don't understand. Kuiu would be an outstanding company if the people running it would shut their mouths and let their product sell it self, because at this point people are buying Kuiu despite the staff not because of it.

Yes, it's not the clothing that has pushed me away from buying Kuiu gear, but the way Jason runs a company. I am starting to think there must be more to the story of why he was ousted out of Sitka...

 

[Shrek]

Yes, it's not the clothing that has pushed me away from buying Kuiu gear, but the way Jason runs a company. I am starting to think there must be more to the story of why he was ousted out of Sitka...

Ya think !?

 

[PA 5-0]

For all you Jason haters, he is out of town but just posted on Kuiu's site that he will throw an Ultra off a cliff on Friday and post the results. Hopefully that will move this situation toward a bed. Or a bag and pad for the backcountry guys. Everyone take a deep breath

 

[Shrek]

Is there an old "cliff test" I can watch on here? I'm curious to see the results from previous tests.

There is also a video that probably inspired the cliff test. I'm not sure in which bikini testing and introduction video it is but Aron was tossing the Kifaru Bikini off the roof fully loaded. Great video. Maybe Aron can link it to show how a top pack company puts their gear through the ringer before they even think about bringing it to market.

 

[jherald]

My pack rolled down an avalanche chute once. It never stopped until it hit the bottom. Does that count?

 

[dotman]

For all you Jason haters, he is out of town but just posted on Kuiu's site that he will throw an Ultra off a cliff on Friday and post the results. Hopefully that will move this situation toward a bed. Or a bag and pad for the backcountry guys. Everyone take a deep breath

Good for him but that doesn't change the tuck tail and run away they did, good thing we have other balls to play with and he doesn't have the only one.

 

[Shrek]

I call BS on the post that isn't here anymore (not that it isn't here but the content ) . Rokslide is a wide open forum and Kuiu was free to put out all the information and promotion they wished as a sponsor. Aron didn't go around and post behind them or undermine their promotions in any way I could see. The most he did was point out the obvious a couple of weeks back that the new tent and sleeping bag were just riffs off some well known designs. It was the first thing I thought too when I saw the pictures. The problem was all the stuff posted before in this thread and more was catching up with them and they could come and moderate their baggage away. They are continuing to pile on the baggage today. It's all mean old Aron's fault...NOT !

 

[grizzly]

I went back and watched the old cliff test. I am amazed KUIU was worried about that. I have an old Kelty Coyote I would throw off that cliff and not worry a second about. I played with the Ultra at the Expo this year and would expect it could withstand that fall as well. I guess I built the severity of that test up in my head. That was a piece of cake.

The major flaw I see in the test is the lack of a 'control'. The obvious break-point on the Ultra seems to be the frame tabs. With this type of test, you don't guarantee equal impacts to all packs. One pack could land on the stuff sack and absorb the blow nicely, while the next could land square on a corner of the frame causing significant damage. In all tests, these variables should be removed as much as possible or multiple test should be run to find an average expected result. (If the Kifaru and SG landed hard on rocks and sustained damage and the KUIU landed on a soft scree slope unscathed, would you all proclaim the KUIU is the toughest pack?)

Jason's major problem isn't the quality of his products, but one of communication. So the Ultra maybe isn't as "tough" as other packs... but it is lighter and costs less. One pack can't be all things to all people. There are plenty of people for whom the Ultra would be an excellent pack, those who don't backpack as much or as hard as others, or those who are UL and will invariably give up some durability for lightweight. To me, this doesn't imply a flaw in the pack, it is just up to the buyer which pack suits his/her needs.

The other communication problem Jason has is his "transparency" philosophy. My point here is that his competitors don't claim transparency and are thus exempt from criticism on it. Once he made that claim a cornerstone of his business, he now is criticized when he doesn't follow through... even though his competitors are no more "transparent" in their product development. (This doesn't mean I like the way they handle dissent, just referring to the materials and manufacturing.)

I still believe KUIU makes some of the very best hunting clothing out there. Their prices are competitive and if you don't like it, don't buy it.

I buy KUIU because of their product quality not because of their PR choices... and I won't stop buying their products because of their PR choices either. Every company makes mistakes and ticks off a customer sometimes (you can hear anything you want about any company... if you ask the right person), so far KUIU clothing has been great for me and that is all that matters.

 

[todd kelly]

For all you Jason haters, he is out of town but just posted on Kuiu's site that he will throw an Ultra off a cliff on Friday and post the results. Hopefully that will move this situation toward a bed. Or a bag and pad for the backcountry guys. Everyone take a deep breath

I think your missing the point. The pack toss is a small piece of a big puzzle. I really could care less about him or anyone heaving one of his packs over a cliff. I'm sure it will survive, and if it doesn't he'll keep trying until it does and post that video......

 

[jm1607]

I think your missing the point. The pack toss is a small piece of a big puzzle. I really could care less about him or anyone heaving one of his packs over a cliff. I'm sure it will survive, and if it doesn't he'll keep trying until it does and post that video......

Hahaha.. "Take 19, and Action!"

 

[chopchop]

It's not the products that drive people away ... It's the people running it and how they handle things.

This is exactly the issue for me personally. There are two companies with which I will not do business, based ENTIRELY on how their owners represent themselves and treat other people on this and other forums. Kuiu is one of them. I made my decision on Kuiu before rokslide existed. Best of luck to them. My business will not make or break their company.


As for the gear reviews, I would not trust a reviewer who would hide negative results from testing of the product. If anything, equipment failure in a test situation allows you to know what the limits of the equipment are, and it helps the designer make their product better.


Tons of great stuff and ideas out there. Thanks to RS and other forum members who share their experiences!

 

[PA 5-0]

hahaha.. "take 19, and action!"

lmfao!!!!!

 

[voidecho]

There is also a video that probably inspired the cliff test. I'm not sure in which bikini testing and introduction video it is but Aron was tossing the Kifaru Bikini off the roof fully loaded. Great video. Maybe Aron can link it to show how a top pack company puts their gear through the ringer before they even think about bringing it to market.

Did that pack weigh 3.5 lbs and cost $349? Durability is traded for lighter and cheaper materials. Apples and oranges. It's amazing how many people around here hate KUIU on a personal level and if anyone has anything good to say about KUIU they must be a "fanboy".

 

[Cross]

Ryan thanks for letting us know what happend.

Rokslide staff thank you for keeping to your standards as it is part of the core values of what Rokslide was founded on.

Can we shut down this thread to comments?