Ring torque- Swarovski vs DNZ

[Brewski]

I'm mounting a new swarovski Z3 3-10x42 on my Winchester model 70 30-06 using one piece DNZ game reaper one piece low mount.

Swarovski manual says 17 in lb to avoid crushing the scope.

DNZ package says 35 in lb. I emailed them and the response was:
"We go 35 or so on all mounts with all scopes, with all calibers and with no damage to any scope. It will not hold at 17 unless you have something bad out of line. Go 17 if you like, but you will be zeroing in all the time because our mounts are machined true and in line. Our design needs at least 25 on light kickers to 35 on heavy kickers. Scope will move around at 17 and rings might not stay tight. Go 30 to 35 and gun will still be on zero 10 years from now. Some real light weight rifles and heavy scopes take 38 or so to stay in place because of our true design. Your mount, your choice. If you really like to shoot, make bad shots, and buy lots of ammo go 17."

17 to 35 in lbs is a big difference and I don't want to damage the scope or have zeroing problems. What torque do you use for Swarovski mounting in DNZ rings? Did you crush your scope or have adjustment problems with 35 in lb? Thanks

 

[JCohHTX]

Had the same situation, and got a similar response from DNZ, where they added any decent modern scope can take 35 in. lb. I used 35 in. lb. on my Swaro Z5 with DNZ game reapers and so far no issues.

 

[wind gypsy]

35 is way too tight with most rings. That said, I assume screw size, thread pitch, number of screws, etc all impacts how tight a given torque rating is clamping the scope tube. I'd just make sure that spec is the ring screws and not the base screws.

Torque that scope in a seekins/badger/nightforce ring to 35 in/lb and you're asking for trouble!

 

[tjmitchell]

You must lap all rings to make better contact and not damage your scope.Believe me it’s a big deal.

 

[False_Cast]

You must lap all rings to make better contact and not damage your scope.Believe me it’s a big deal.

This is simply untrue.

 

[freddyG]

You will crimp your tube on a swaro z3 at 35 in lb They have very thin tubes. 17 in lb sounds about right. Start low and work up if you have issues.

 

[Brewski]

I called Swarovski and they said to follow the instructions in the manual because of the thin scope tube and they have seen damaged tubes:
17.7 in lb in general, or 20 in lb for steel rings or 15 in lb for aluminum rings.

I'm going 17 and will report back if I have to go higher because of slippage. I used some finger nail paint for indicator marks so hopefully I can see movement.

I don't see how lapping prevents crushing in this scenario. If you lap and go to 35 the scope could still be crushed, especially the gap between the top of bottom ring and bottom of top ring.

 

[RS3579]

I thought the DNZ package said 25 in lbs. not the 35 as stated in this thread. I’ve only used DNZ on Browning rifles. Maybe the torque specs are different for different manufacturers. I’m going to check and post a picture of the DNZ package.

 

[JCohHTX]

DNZ told me: Do not use our mounts unless you go to 35 inch pounds, it will not hold. Your scope will slide forward with each shot. Our mounts are made so strong and thick, and so true and straight they will not hold at less. For something to hold at 18 it has to be bad out of line and putting scope in a bind. Any scope made today can handle 35 easy. If you only want to go 18 then go get you a cheap china mount and adjust it every time you shoot or use our mount and go 35 and never adjust again.

But now you all have me worried. Swaro scopes cost a lot more than DNZ rings.

 

[wind gypsy]

DNZ told me: Do not use our mounts unless you go to 35 inch pounds, it will not hold. Your scope will slide forward with each shot. Our mounts are made so strong and thick, and so true and straight they will not hold at less. For something to hold at 18 it has to be bad out of line and putting scope in a bind. Any scope made today can handle 35 easy. If you only want to go 18 then go get you a cheap china mount and adjust it every time you shoot or use our mount and go 35 and never adjust again.

But now you all have me worried. Swaro scopes cost a lot more than DNZ rings.

ARC m10 rings recommend 50-55 in/lb on their single ring screw. That isn't too tight with that particular ring design. My guess is that the DNZ rings spec is probably correct based upon only having a single screw per side of the ring and the screw size/pitch.

I'd also ask swaro what rings they used to come up with their torque spec. It makes a difference. Guessing it's a standard 4 screw ring cap.

 

[Dead eye BT]

I’d torque the screws to 17 to start out with. Then I’d put a piece of tape on the scope, right along and on the front side of the front ring. I’d fire away and keep an eye on that tape. If the tape moves forward AT ALL, I’d move the scope back again and try 20. If it happens at 20, I’d try again at 25, etc., until I find the minimum it takes to hold the scope in place.
I don’t care how straight, true, or perfect the ring alignment is, what’s providing resistance when the screws are being torqued is the SCOPE.

 

[WCB]

get different rings...I use Weaver 4 hole and 6 hole tactical rings 15-18inch pounds. 35 for the cross bolt...Doesn't matter if it is a "modern" scope tube 35 is way too tight.

Ask them if they will warranty the scope if you do damage to it.

 

[Ondavirg]

Wish there was a straight answer here, but my z5 is holding well at 20 in lbs so far.

 

[Brewski]

To close out my findings: I used blue locktite and torqued to 17. I applied finger nail paint and electrical tape to indicate if scope moved at all or if screws backed out and checked after every shot.

After 60 3006 168 grain rounds, scope didn't move, zero held, and no problems to report when torqued to 17. I am confident in the setup but won't use dnz mounts with expensive scopes in the future. Thanks for the helpful suggestions.

 

[pirogue]

Seems to me if DNZ wants that much torque, their rings are inferior to start with. I don’t want them.

 

[Q child]

Great thread. Thanks to everybody who contributed. I am about to try mounting a scope for the first time, and was thinking about using these exact scope and rings. I think I will get some different rings.

 

[zion zig zag]

Just bumping this up for recent findings. I was pretty set on getting the DNZ Game Reapers based on all of the good reviews here, then this came up in a search. Mounting a Vortex Razor LHT on a Tikka and Vortex says to go max 18 in/lbs torque. DNZ still saying 35 in/lbs or they won't hold zero.

What have people that have been using the DNZ torqued to? Any loss of zero or crushed tubes out there?

 

[zion zig zag]

Bump for anyone using DNZ Gamereaper and what they torqued tings to.....

 

[Breckenridge]

I have had terrific luck with the DNZ rings. Actually putting a new scope/ring setup on my tikka this weekend. Mounting a leupold Mark5 4-20x34mm with a DNZ tactical set and this is what the torque spec calls for:

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

There's a lot of really bad information on here, and a fundamental misunderstanding of what torque recommendations are.

You are not tightening a base onto a receiver, you are physically bending a top ring (or side ring) into a 30mm (or 1" or 34mm) circle. At "X" inch lbs of torque, you have bent the ring into that shape. At values above that, you have bent it into an oval, damaging the tube.

Most ring manufacturers use rings of a traditional thickness, with a traditional number of bolts, and a traditional bolt size. Some manufacturers use bigger bolts, which require a different torque spec. Scope companies do not account for every ring manufacturer out there (and shouldn't even try).

If you're worried about it, torque to 17 in-lbs, and check the tube. Torque to 18 in-lbs, and check the tube. Repeat all the way to 35 in-lbs.

I think someone else mentioned it in here but Badger Ordnance rings have a torque spec of 12 in-lbs, Talley Lightweights have a torque spec of 15 in lbs! Torque either of those to 18 in-lbs and you'll be paying for a new maintube.

Also, I don't believe there's a single ring manufacturer out there that recommends lapping your rings. All you're doing is removing material and changing the weakened ring's torque spec.