Rifle Dilemma

[taz_gerstman]

So I find myself in a bit of a pickle with a few of my current rifles and I wanted to reach out to the experts here to get your opinion. I will be heading to New Mexico this fall for an Elk rifle hunt. My main rifle is the Browning 300 Win Mag X-Bolt and my back-up will either be from a variety of 308s I own, tikka t3x lite, browning x-bolt (older version, wood stock) and browning bar. A few weeks ago I went to a range to make sure my 300 win mag and my tikka 308 were still zeroed in at 200 yards. The 300 was dead on but my tikka was spraying everywhere which was unusual because I baby my rifles but things can happen. So I decided I would start off at 50 yards and work my way out to 200. 50 yards was good no change. Had to make just minor adjustment to the 100 yards and all good. So yesterday I went back out to my dads to shoot at 200 yards. First two shots were off to the right and up but I blamed that on me, lack of practice, etc. I settled in and made 3 good shots. So I decided to shoot a few more because why not right. Well the first two shots were back way up in right hand corner. I was so confused at this point. Well my dad, in typical dad fashion, said son I think you have a problem. The look I gave him could have been priceless. Now my dad is an old country boy who can shoot like nobody's business and when it comes to mechanical things along with materials etc he is dead on because he has been a machinist for 30+ years and he knows hunting equipment. He said it looks like you have a bedding issue. I had no clue what that was. I am not up on firearms like he is. So I asked him to demonstrate what he meant and he said that I should be able to take a dollar bill and slide it between the barrel and stock all the way down to about the bolt action. Well he tried and on the right side, which is from my viewpoint as the shooter, you could but on the left there was no way. The stock contacted the barrel quite a ways up around the beginning. He said that could be one of your main issues of it not being consistent right now. So naturally I went crazy because I don't like things like this happening to my equipment. So when I get home I researched it and sure enough I see what he was talking about. My gunsmith doesn't work on Fridays so now I am going to have to sit and wait until Monday to see what he says about it. So now I am wondering if I should take out my old trusty wood stock x-bolt browning and sight it in and take that one with me instead because it is a tack driver and after looking at the barrel and stock it is perfect all the way down. Now to some this may not be an issue but to a novice like me it will play with my head because I don't have confidence the gun is spot on because there is an "issue" or is there. I was thinking about putting a scope on the browning BAR and taking that as my back-up but to do that I would need to remove the scope from my Tikka which is a leupold vx6hd scope. I don't feel like spending a lot of money on a new scope right now. However I noticed on the BAR that it had the same issue as the Tikka. the left side was touching the barrel. Basically the center axis of the barrel and the center axis of the stock just don't line up. So what do I do? Any thoughts, ideas, experiences, etc. I want my guns to be on and all kinks worked out the best they can be but not only just for this hunt but future hunting as well. Thanks oh and should I take a different firearm as my backup besides the Tikka? Provide comments

 

[Wrench]

Rifles VERY rarely just break. Scopes break all the time.

Try a different scope. You'll likely find a problem with the mounting or the optic in the process.

Bedding issues are usually not going to influence more than 1-2moa max. A dinged crown can wreak a little havoc too.....but when shots go wild it's almost always the scope......unless you decided to load some bullet that is beyond what you can stabilize....look on top of that rifle and I bet you find the issue.

 

[Outdoorsman12b]

Sounds like your in analysis paralysis. It depends how much time you have and what you want to take. This is a backup rifle after all so if time would be better spent shooting your 300 that's where I would put my effort. You don't want your confidence going down in shooting before a hunt. The wood stock 308 browning if it is a proven shooter sounds good. You will spend far less time and stress with zeroing that rifle then trying to resolve errors in the tikka. I have 100% been in that spot.

 

[taz_gerstman]

I don't believe this is the scope nor the mounts and rings and I shoot factory ammo. barnes ttsx so no loading issues. not saying it cant be the scope but I doubt it. since I am not an expert I need someone who knows them inside and out to look at it, shoot it and educate me.

 

[taz_gerstman]

yes outdoorsman12b. you are correct on all accounts. until my gunsmith can look at my rifle I should practice more with the one I plan on hunting with and sight in the older 308 which has always been a good rifle and just let it ride at that. no reason to stress over something when I have a mitigation plan already.

 

[slvrslngr]

Fix one issue at a time. Have your smith properly bud and free float the barrel. Also have him check the crown. Then shoot it. If it’s still spraying then swap the scope out. Leupolds are certainly susceptible to failure. In the meantime, get the 308 x-bolt dialed in.

 

[browning2480]

Run that BAR. I would put mine up against any bolt action.

 

[taz_gerstman]

both the tikka and bar will be going to the gunsmith. it appears they both have the same "bedding" issue but will not know for sure until he can look at them and assess. If I run the bar that means I have to swap a scope out and I would want to put the leupold on it but like the person said above, I need to eliminate one thing at a time and transferring the scope prior to really knowing could potentially be swapping problems from one gun to the next. The "old" 308 is about to be brought out of retirement and verified. It would be the best solution for a back up until all other issues have been corrected, etc.

 

[Vacrt2002]

If the tikka was MOA prior it’s not the rifle or the bedding. Probably not factory ammo, and not the rings if it was MOA before.

Best bet Start over with a clean barrel and swapping the scope. Checking for loose primary, the front, screw and rule out loose scope rings, seem you already have.

Good luck

 

[16Bore]

Is it assembled correctly? Lug tight? Action screws? Yadda, yadda....

 

[DarylG619]

Rifles VERY rarely just break. Scopes break all the time.

Try a different scope. You'll likely find a problem with the mounting or the optic in the process.

Bedding issues are usually not going to influence more than 1-2moa max. A dinged crown can wreak a little havoc too.....but when shots go wild it's almost always the scope......unless you decided to load some bullet that is beyond what you can stabilize....look on top of that rifle and I bet you find the issue.

This is good advice. OP did you actually check your mounts to make sure they are all torqued down to spec? Also you mention the wood stock x-bolt is a tack driver, you could very easily check that scope this weekend by mounting it on that rifle and shooting it. You could also put another scope on the tikka and see if the problem is still there. I would start at scope/mounts before taking it to the gunsmith.

 

[taz_gerstman]

so I typically leave my setups alone once I have a really good setup. There is nothing wrong with my older browning. I still deer hunt with it. I don't want to take the scopes off of units that function very well overall. I don't disagree in making sure the scope is installed/setup correctly but I am going to make sure all of it is to spec. Each part of a rifle is different in its own right and could have built in issues from the manufacturing process, etc. as well as scopes or things can be introduced during the implementation of the scope, etc.

 

[Formidilosus]

Holy Pete...



taz,

This is not difficult. Unscrew the action screws, pull the stock off. Use sand paper or a knife and relieve the barrel channel so that it doesn’t touch- a dollar bill is not enough. Once it’s clear, degrease all screws and screw holes, blue loctite or nail polish every screw, torque action down to 50-65 in-lbs. Renove scope and follow this to remount.

Scope mounting to maintain zero

After multiple requests for an explanation of how to mount a scope in order to have the lowest possibility of loss of zero, a discussion of a scope mounting video, and the latest thread about scope bases and action screw coming loose, I took some pics of what I do with a rifle when I get it and...

www.rokslide.com

Shoot rifle, if it’s atill shooting poorly, it’s the scope. Buy scope that works.

 

[Jagger0502]

Something that will cause this is how you rest your rifle when you shoot. If you rest on the stock like you should it will shoot correctly. If you are resting the barrel on something it will likely cause it to shoot high and right for right handers I believe. By chance did you have the bag/jacket/blocks set up touching your barrel? Or a lead sled sometimes causes issues if you lock the gun to it. Avoid that as well.

if not it could be a bedding issue, if not that it is likely a scope issue, lastly a barrel or ammo issue.

You proved an issue with the barrel contacting the stock which can cause issues, but it seems like you are further off than what that might cause as mentioned above. But it might be worth filing down To be sure.

if you didn’t try different ammo, maybe try that next. Also not too likely but easy to check if you have a different box of ammo laying around.

next would be the scope, tighten everything down and be sure it is set To torque specs. Don’t over tighten the rings. This is common to ruin scopes that most do and don’t even realize. A torque driver is a must to not over tighten a scope or you will do some damage that you will never notice.

I would say run a brush cleaner thru it to make sure you don’t have anything fowling the barrel, clean it and look with a bore light to see if you have any issues there. Shoot a shot to dirty the barrel and then shoot some groups letting the barrel cool between shots. Hot barrels will Move the shot up as well.

 

[taz_gerstman]

So not sure how people will feel about this but I was actually using bipods on a very sturdy table when shooting. Yes the barrel was hot and I should not have been in such a hurry and let the barrel cool and went thru a process. The gun is pretty clean but doesn't hurt to run a bore snake thru it or something just to make sure. I don't have a torque driver. Never had the need for one. I am not saying that the stock touching the barrel is the issue but if it is just one thing in the long equation that can affect accuracy then why not fix it. If "fixed" and still doesn't correct the shots then no harm done regardless. I can check that box and move on to the next thing. At least ill be working out all the bugs as I go along, if there are any. perhaps I need to shoot it with it laying across a sand bag, etc.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

So not sure how people will feel about this but I was actually using bipods on a very sturdy table when shooting. Yes the barrel was hot and I should not have been in such a hurry and let the barrel cool and went thru a process. The gun is pretty clean but doesn't hurt to run a bore snake thru it or something just to make sure. I don't have a torque driver. Never had the need for one. I am not saying that the stock touching the barrel is the issue but if it is just one thing in the long equation that can affect accuracy then why not fix it. If "fixed" and still doesn't correct the shots then no harm done regardless. I can check that box and move on to the next thing. At least ill be working out all the bugs as I go along, if there are any. perhaps I need to shoot it with it laying across a sand bag, etc.

Cold to hot. I haven't cleaned in a few hundred rounds. Off of bags at 100 yards.

 

[Jagger0502]

Bipods are just as good as bags, as long as you don’t have the barrel resting on anything. Bags might be a bit more secure but either will work. Start checking the boxes and you will come up with with the reason.

 

[taz_gerstman]

ok that is at 100 nice but my 100 was just fine as well. I zero in at 200 yards. so back to the drawing board this weekend. not giving up just yet

 

[Rich M]

I'm working on some loads right now and sand bag, gun rest, and bipods are all running pretty close. They don't care if it is 100 200 or 300 yards. I try to zero at 275 cause ti gives me a good PBR.

You've got plenty of time to get it all figured out.

 

[Rob5589]

ok that is at 100 nice but my 100 was just fine as well. I zero in at 200 yards. so back to the drawing board this weekend. not giving up just yet

If you're shooting fine at 100 but, not 200, I would be looking at the load. Or in the mirror.