Rifle and caliber to bridge the gap

[Tmac]

And yes, I am looking for an excuse for a new rifle.

Any thoughts on whether the 325 WSM is a big enough jump up from the 7Mag or no?

chris

I’d say the 325WSM is a big enough jump from 7mag, but I’d not take that jump. I’d go 338 for better bullet selection/ammo availability.

But for myself, my “heavy“ rifle is a 30-06 with 180TTSX’s or my 280Rem with 175 partitions. I have a 358Win & 9.3x62 & 444Marlin too for fun, not really for hunting. Probably going to sell them.

 

[keystone112]

Sounds like your cartridge choice and rifle choice might be related to each other. Maybe start with the bullet options that look like what you want. Then what cartridges shoot those bullets. And then what rifles are available in those cartridges. If you choose an 8mm Rem Mag or a 340 Wby Mag you will have a different group of rifles to choose from than a 338 Win Mag.

Someone mentioned rebarreling above. Also a good option. You can make your 30-06 a 338-06 if you don’t need super fast velocities and avoid some recoil in the process.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

If you’re stepping up, then step up properly.

375 Ruger

EDIT
375 H&H as well

 

[A382DWDZQ]

Sounds like your cartridge choice and rifle choice might be related to each other. Maybe start with the bullet options that look like what you want. Then what cartridges shoot those bullets. And then what rifles are available in those cartridges. If you choose an 8mm Rem Mag or a 340 Wby Mag you will have a different group of rifles to choose from than a 338 Win Mag.

Someone mentioned rebarreling above. Also a good option. You can make your 30-06 a 338-06 if you don’t need super fast velocities and avoid some recoil in the process.

Maybe 30-06 AI?

 

[EdP]

What gap? There is no practical gap, but there is always room for another rifle in the safe.

 

[Nykki]

I would go with a 375 H&H over the 338wm, I've got both in M70 and enjoy shooting the 375 over the 338. Both will kill anything you shoot but so will my 06, I've shot bear's with moose with all three. As I've gotten older I reach for the 06 most of the time now.

 

[elkguide]

I am a .30 caliber addict.

Now that we have that clear, I have rifles on both sides of the .30s. I have 7 different .30 caliber rifles, in 5 of the .30 calibers available today. My go to rifle always seems to be a .300 Win Mag.

The '06 is a truly venerable old cartridge but for me if I am going to take that much recoil, (and I am not very recoil sensitive as only my RUMs wear brakes) give me the magnum version to really get down range and touch something. Probably the same reason that I no longer own any 7Mags. I do like .28s and have .280s and .284s but just don't have any love for the big 7s, lots of noise and recoil. One of those cowboys that is "all hat and no cows!"

In my years as an elk hunting guide, I have seen elk taken with rifles from the 25-06 to the big Lazeronis and yes elk can absorb a lot of lead but when I head out for elk, I almost always seem to end up with a .300WM.
The Win Mag can be found in factory loads from 110 grain bullets to 220 grain bullets which to me is another huge plus and makes the WM the top of the heap of factory rifles and if you handload....... the sky is the limit.

Have fun in your quest for the "PERFECT" rifle for you.

 

[Longleaf]

You’ll be limited in range but a 45-70 lever gun is flat out fun, especially if you hand load.

 

[35WhelenAI]

35 Whelen or AI. 250 gr bullet at just over 2700 fps in current Speer data for the standard Whelen, AI can get a bit more velocity as per working up loads with 2000-MR (the powder Speer gets over 2700 fps with in the std Whelen).

JES can rebore an existing '06 for example for a whole lot less than a new barrel or new gun. Then you've got money to burn on components for loading at today's high prices when you can find them.

My elk load is the 200 TTSX which has a better BC than the 225 TSX and can be moved out at 3000 fps and a bit more in my AI by extrapolating starting loads from the 180 and 220 gr bullets in current Speer data (Power Pro Varmint) and working up. Expands much more quickly on impact compared to the original X or TSX design based on field dressing observations (elk/mule deer), minimal meat loss (as with monos in general), penetrates and reaches the vitals as it keeps going out the other side from any angle I've taken, not just broadside through the body cavity.

Sierra current data shows 2900 fps for their 225 Game King as well with CFE223 and 2000-MR. Not that I would use that bullet on elk or moose, but shows Speer is not off base with their results.

This is a reality for the Whelen in this day, with reputable load data backing it up.

 

[christian1]

35 Whelen or AI. 250 gr bullet at just over 2700 fps in current Speer data for the standard Whelen, AI can get a bit more velocity as per working up loads with 2000-MR (the powder Speer gets over 2700 fps with in the std Whelen).

JES can rebore an existing '06 for example for a whole lot less than a new barrel or new gun. Then you've got money to burn on components for loading at today's high prices when you can find them.

My elk load is the 200 TTSX which has a better BC than the 225 TSX and can be moved out at 3000 fps and a bit more in my AI by extrapolating starting loads from the 180 and 220 gr bullets in current Speer data (Power Pro Varmint) and working up. Expands much more quickly on impact compared to the original X or TSX design based on field dressing observations (elk/mule deer), minimal meat loss (as with monos in general), penetrates and reaches the vitals as it keeps going out the other side from any angle I've taken, not just broadside through the body cavity.

Sierra current data shows 2900 fps for their 225 Game King as well with CFE223 and 2000-MR. Not that I would use that bullet on elk or moose, but shows Speer is not off base with their results.

This is a reality for the Whelen in this day, with reputable load data backing it up.

That might be a very interesting concept. I have a RUGER MkII M77 in 3006 stainless with wood laminated stock. . Making that into a 35 Whelen would be pretty cool. I'm going to really mull that over.

 

[christian1]

You’ll be limited in range but a 45-70 lever gun is flat out fun, especially if you hand load.

Have one and love it. Haven't taken any game with it, but I have carried it while doing deer drives in Northern Wi. Great brush gun. I think distance is a big limiter though.

chris

 

[35WhelenAI]

Yes, give the re-bore a good look. I have a stainless synthetic Ruger M77 MKII in '06 with the 3 position safety, really like that rifle. Does yours have the three position safety or the tang safety? Also barrel length of 22 inches or 24 inches? My Whelen AI is built on a Mauser 98 action with a Shilen barrel.

The Speer data I believe was done with the 24 inch barrel. Even though they don't list it, I read that elsewhere. Not sure if Sierra was 24 or 26 inches. A 22 inch barrel will lose a few feet per second but knocking on the door of 2700 FPS with a 250 and approaching 2900 FPS with a 225 is hauling serious freight.

Even with those impressive performances with the heavier bullets, I switched to with the 200 TTSX when they first came out and have not been disappointed. Very decent BC combined with great velocity as I said in my other post. It's the holy grail of elk loads in my opinion from my 35 AI.

 

[christian1]

Yes, give the re-bore a good look. I have a stainless synthetic Ruger M77 MKII in '06 with the 3 position safety, really like that rifle. Does yours have the three position safety or the tang safety? Also barrel length of 22 inches or 24 inches? My Whelen AI is built on a Mauser 98 action with a Shilen barrel.

The Speer data I believe was done with the 24 inch barrel. Even though they don't list it, I read that elsewhere. Not sure if Sierra was 24 or 26 inches. A 22 inch barrel will lose a few feet per second but knocking on the door of 2700 FPS with a 250 and approaching 2900 FPS with a 225 is hauling serious freight.

Even with those impressive performances with the heavier bullets, I switched to with the 200 TTSX when they first came out and have not been disappointed. Very decent BC combined with great velocity as I said in my other post. It's the holy grail of elk loads in my opinion from my 35 AI.

I have the 3 position safety which I have always liked. I believe it's 22, but may be 24" I haven't really looked. One thing I dislike about that gun is the bolt handle. It hits the scope evrey time. I wish they had put a different bend on that thing. My Leupold VX 2 has a scrap line right down it where the handle hits.

I wonder if they could also thread that barrel for a muzzle break ? That would be a helpful thing in making it a more shootable gun.

My only real quandry is whether to go AI or not. It would help if the gun is the shorter 22" barrel. Finding brass seems like the biggest problem. I saw some that were 110 bucks for 20 pieces. That's pretty steep. Other than that, I would go with AI just for the cool factor.

chris

 

[wildwilderness]

I may not have been clear. I'm thinking of bridging between 7Mag/06 to the next step up. Unless you believe that the 7Mag/06 calibers are the adequate and efficient enough to take ALL North American big game.

"Is the 300 going to be that much difference though? Sure, more velocity, but not that much difference in bullet selection and pure smack down. I'd get rid of the 30 06 as well, but that gun has sentimental value."chris

Yes the 7mag or '06 with the right bullets can kill all NA big game. There are others that may be "better" in specific situations, but dead is dead.

Is your '06 a rifle you like to shoot? You can always change it- Rebore by JES can make a 338-06 or 35 Whelen with just a rebore, and use all your 06 brass. This would keep that rifle the same for sentimental value.

I would suggest the 9.3x 62 which he can do with a rechamber and rebore, but that cost would put you close to a new barrel which is the next option. The medium bores do very well for killing

If you go new, the next step is the 338's lots of options there....

 

[9.1]

My vote would be a big 338 if you're wanting to kill big things far away or a 45-70 lever action if you think you'll be real close. Go with the 35 Whelen if you want to save some money with the JES rebore and you're ok with limiting shots on game to 1/4 mile.

Make sure you look to see if you can get the bullets or ammo you want to shoot before you decide on a gun. I haven't been able to find some of the bullets mentioned in this thread for over a year.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

It's hard to get in to a big 338 for $2000. Savage is about the only option under that price point.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I have the 3 position safety which I have always liked. I believe it's 22, but may be 24" I haven't really looked. One thing I dislike about that gun is the bolt handle. It hits the scope evrey time. I wish they had put a different bend on that thing. My Leupold VX 2 has a scrap line right down it where the handle hits.

I wonder if they could also thread that barrel for a muzzle break ? That would be a helpful thing in making it a more shootable gun.

My only real quandry is whether to go AI or not. It would help if the gun is the shorter 22" barrel. Finding brass seems like the biggest problem. I saw some that were 110 bucks for 20 pieces. That's pretty steep. Other than that, I would go with AI just for the cool factor.

chris

AI is for the cool factor, and 50 fps or so in my estimation. The less tapered case seems to need trimming less often than the standard case, but with the performance of the newer powders, it's a wash in the real world on game. I'm fortunate to have brass on hand and purchased a number of boxes of factory loads over the years that I'll be fine for brass for fire forming. But as soon as I find some for sale, I'm buying it lol.

Keep in mind, the std Whelen or the AI cases can be made from '06 brass. Neck up to .358, it will fire fine in the standard chamber, as they headspace at the same point on the shoulder, despite the shoulders being very different in appearance. Necked up brass will fire fine in the AI chamber as well but do that with a lighter load to form the case to the AI chamber. If I was gonna use '06 brass, I probably would fire the necked up cases with a light load even in the standard chamber just to get them all uniform. That probably doesn't need to be done, but just my plan if I ever use '06 cases as my brass source. Because the case neck is being expanded, it will leave the case length just a tad short when using '06 brass. But after a few firings and sizings it with lengthen out a bit.

 

[wildwilderness]

That might be a very interesting concept. I have a RUGER MkII M77 in 3006 stainless with wood laminated stock. . Making that into a 35 Whelen would be pretty cool. I'm going to really mull that over.

My experience- I had JES rebore a Ruger MKII that was a 270. Wanted a 338-06 but he said he tried and didn’t turn out clean so upped it to a 35 whelen.

I had that for a few years and killed a few things with it BUT there was a Fail to fire issue. I took it to gunsmiths multiple times, checked head space etc and nothing. Some rounds it liked more than others but about a 25% fail to fire rate is unacceptable. I had to load the hunting bullets jammed into the lands to consistently fire.

So I ended up with a New barrel this time in 9.3x 62 which has been great. Should have done that from the beginning and been time and money ahead.

So if 35 cal is your thing go AI for sure! Or look at the 338-06

 

[35WhelenAI]

Interesting it checked out fine with gunsmiths, yet the rifle had the fail to fire issue. I'm curious from a handloading standpoint, was that with factory rounds or new factory brass (unsized other than maybe neck sizing to clean up the case mouths) in handloads? Did the problem/exist persist with fired brass after sizing?

 

[christian1]

Interesting it checked out fine with gunsmiths, yet the rifle had the fail to fire issue. I'm curious from a handloading standpoint, was that with factory rounds or new factory brass (unsized other than maybe neck sizing to clean up the case mouths) in handloads? Did the problem/exist persist with fired brass after sizing?

Very interested as well.

chris