Rifle advice for learning long range

[ian-nh]

I'm going to take a couple courses at Sig Sauer in New Hampshire to learn long range shooting. Courses I'll be taking are PSR 101,102,103 etc.

Currently I have a Springfield Waypoint in 6.5 Creed. It is unfired and doesn't even have an optic as of yet. It is the steel/fluted version, not the carbon barrel. In the PSR 103 course you'll reach out to 1,000 yards. Before I spend any money on this particular rifle is this a good choice for these courses? Should I be looking for a PRC or Win Mag instead of the 6.5 Creed?

Thanks

Ian

 

[Steve300xcw]

I lobbed a pile of 75gr Amaxes out of a $400 rifle out to 1200yrds before I went up in caliber.

Thats all got

 

[Megalodon]

You absolutely don't want anything bigger than a 6.5CM.

I also kinda question those Sig courses. I have no direct experience with them, but few things I've read here and there make them seems a little like a crock. So all three courses combined are 48hrs of instruction and ~$2250?? That's too much on both accounts in my mind, and you don't actually shoot to 1,000 until 103?? A good reputable rifle course will be 2-3 days and you'll be shooting at a waterline 1,000 yard target probably half way through the first day.


I get location is a big part of it, but look into independent classes with well known instructors.

 

[ian-nh]

You absolutely don't want anything bigger than a 6.5CM.

I also kinda question those Sig courses. I have no direct experience with them, but few things I've read here and there make them seems a little like a crock. So all three courses combined are 48hrs of instruction and ~$2250?? That's too much on both accounts in my mind, and you don't actually shoot to 1,000 until 103?? A good reputable rifle course will be 2-3 days and you'll be shooting at a waterline 1,000 yard target probably half way through the first day.


I get location is a big part of it, but look into independent classes with well known instructors.

That's an unexpected response but absolutely appreciated. I had never even thought of that aspect of it.

I'll have to research an alternative to Sig and hopefully there is something in New Hampshire/New England.

Getting back to the first line of your response, do you feel the 6.5C is adequate to 1k?

 

[JohnJohnson]

That's a tough one to answer and it all depends on you. The total round count of those 3 courses you mentioned appears to be 750 rounds and you end up covering less material than most 3 day courses cover with half the rounds. Plus with those course fees you could pay for the course fee + travel costs to go to a better course out of state.

They require a background check on you to take the course? Never heard of that and it's really offputting.

Unfortunately for you the SH long range course just happened a few weeks ago in NE. I think they do it once per year but maybe they'll post the signup for the next one soon since the signup for the one that happened a few weeks ago was posted about a year in advance.

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Guys here have also said good things about the Shoot 2 Hunt University or Academy or whatever it is that Rokslide guys run. Are you looking to only learn long range skills for hunting?

 

[ian-nh]

Guys here have also said good things about the Shoot 2 Hunt University or Academy or whatever it is that Rokslide guys run. Are you looking to only learn long range skills for hunting?

Not so much hunting really. I watch a lot of gun stuff on Youtube and started watching Backfire and Impact Shooting and thought it was extremely impressive and very challenging. I was always into AR's but never really shot anything past 100 yards and I wanted to try it out.

 

[Mattman215]

That rifle is great no need to change anything.

I personally would try to find a guy at a local range who will teach you and use the 2k on ammo. But the rifle will suit you well get a good scope that tracks
Properly such as nightforce leupold mark5 etc and good mounts.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Not so much hunting really. I watch a lot of gun stuff on Youtube and started watching Backfire and Impact Shooting and thought it was extremely impressive and very challenging. I was always into AR's but never really shot anything past 100 yards and I wanted to try it out.

If you don't care as much about learning it in a strictly hunting context, that opens up a lot of options for courses. The Impact Shooting guy for instance (Pieter Malan) is a PRS shooter. If you're interested in learning that kind of LR shooting then you're in luck. Rifles Only actually runs some of their courses in New Hampshire. If you go that route I have to say I'd sell that Waypoint and go with something else. But Rifles Only are extremely well known in the LR community for their courses and have an impeccable reputation from everything I've heard.

PRECISION RIFLE I & II - New Hampshire

riflesonly.com

 

[ian-nh]

If you don't care as much about learning it in a strictly hunting context, that opens up a lot of options for courses. The Impact Shooting guy for instance (Pieter Malan) is a PRS shooter. If you're interested in learning that kind of LR shooting then you're in luck. Rifles Only actually runs some of their courses in New Hampshire. If you go that route I have to say I'd sell that Waypoint and go with something else. But Rifles Only are extremely well known in the LR community for their courses and have an impeccable reputation from everything I've heard.

PRECISION RIFLE I & II - New Hampshire

riflesonly.com

Excellent, thanks to all of you guys for the responses, much appreciated!

 

[Mattman215]

Once you learn how and get the right tools 1k yards is really not much of a challenge.

 

[Megalodon]

Again I can't speak to the S2H stuff, S2H is a marketing company. That's clearly their goal, and I would never take a rifle/hunting course from a marketing company.

Rifles Only, Modern Day Sniper, Colorado Precision Rifle, are all three well respected classes that sound like they will much better suit what you are looking for and come out cheaper and take up less time even with some travel included.


You're still asking about 6.5CM being good for 1,000 yards. The short answer is absolutely. You'll learn better why in any of those classes, but the gist of it is that quality bullets are very predictable in their drop until you get to their transonic range (at least). So long as you are shooting a 140 ELDM at 2600 FPS or greater you'll be fine. if you went with a bigger cartridge, with more speed within that transonic range all you are getting is a little bit better wind performance, but at the cost of a lot more recoil that with hurt you from building good fundamentals.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Rifles Only, Modern Day Sniper, Colorado Precision Rifle, are all three well respected classes that sound like they will much better suit what you are looking for and come out cheaper and take up less time even with some travel included.

Can't stress this enough. OP, I envy you for being that close to the Rifles Only class that I linked. I'll likely end up traveling for one in the next year or two.

 

[WKR]

That's an unexpected response but absolutely appreciated. I had never even thought of that aspect of it.

I'll have to research an alternative to Sig and hopefully there is something in New Hampshire/New England.

Getting back to the first line of your response, do you feel the 6.5C is adequate to 1k?

I highly recommend Jamie's classes at wolf precision. In in Jamestown PA though so it would either be a half day drive or a really quick flight. And for $2000 you would be able to use his school rifles (22 creedmoor) that are equipped with a suppressor and ammo is provided. Thats a 3 day course. If you bring your own rifle its a little cheaper, I think around 1500 instead of 2k. You will be shooting out to 1000.

Wolf Precision's Long Range Shooting School

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To your original question, a 6.5 creedmoor is more than adequate for 1000 yard course. A 6mm or 22 creed works great too. Jamie has went to all 22 creedmoors for his school rifles because of how manageable the recoil is and in turn allows the students to learn without getting beat up from recoil.

 

[wind gypsy]

6.5 creed is near optimal for that application with factory ammunition. You don't want to burn 750 rounds of PRC or bigger in 3 days. Your particular rifle is a weight conscious hunting model so if just getting a range toy i'd have selected something with a little more weight and a heavier barrel contour but that rifle still works.

Classes are good but frankly you could get most of the way there with info that's free online. IMO the primary benefit from most is the forced shooting scenarios picked by instructors in the classes and being watched/critiqued so guys are more likely to be cognizant of doing things right.

 

[wind gypsy]

I highly recommend Jamie's classes at wolf precision. In in Jamestown PA though so it would either be a half day drive or a really quick flight. And for $2000 you would be able to use his school rifles (22 creedmoor) that are equipped with a suppressor and ammo is provided. Thats a 3 day course. If you bring your own rifle its a little cheaper, I think around 1500 instead of 2k. You will be shooting out to 1000.

Wolf Precision's Long Range Shooting School

Wolf Precision's Long Range Shooting School. Come and experience the art of long range shooting at one of America's oldest premier long range shooting schools. For both beginners and advanced shooters alike.

www.wolfprecision.net

To your original question, a 6.5 creedmoor is more than adequate for 1000 yard course. A 6mm or 22 creed is even better. Jamie has went to all 22 creedmoors for his school rifles because of how manageable the recoil is and in turn allows the students to learn without getting beat up from recoil.

Dude must like buying barrels! Geesh. Be easier to do 6 BRs or ARCs.

 

[WKR]

Dude must like buying barrels! Geesh. Be easier to do 6BRs or ARCs.

Well, they handload all the school ammo and don't hotrod them, so he's getting pretty good barrel life actually.

I mean we are all used to taking a 22 creed way up to pressure for hunting loads, but if you think about it, you could load down and get pretty darn good barrel life if you wanted to. All depends on how hard you step on the gas.

 

[SloppyJ]

I would say that your rifle is fine. It has long barrel life compared to the 6mms, bucks wind with the correct bullet, and has much less recoil than a rifle that you're probably thinking you need.

 

[SloppyJ]

Dude must like buying barrels! Geesh. Be easier to do 6 BRs or ARCs.

He makes rifles so I guess he has a good stash of them. They have a proprietary separately cut chamber that he produces. I THINK he's selling them on BAT actions. I haven't heard much about them other than what's discussed on his podcast. Seems like an interesting idea but not sure how it really works.

 

[mtnbound]

Rifle and caliber are fine but you could drop to a smaller caliber and shoot with even less recoil for training purposes to build your foundation. Really do your homework on training classes and focus on ones that fit your specific needs or goals. Contact them and ask for references. Don’t take someone’s advice about a class unless they have attended it. Travel does add a lot to the overall cost but a bad local class is not giving you anything.


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[TaperPin]

A training rifle should be easy to shoot - my first choice is 243, but 6.5 creed is shot by a lot of people at 1000 yards and has slightly more recoil. I’ve never been without a 243 so it’s hard to recommend anything else, although anything from 223 with heavy bullets on up will reach 1000.

Sounds like fun whichever course you end up with! You might ask around for a long range club - you can pick up a lot of free informal training from groups like that. Even a long distance range will have a number of regulars that often take guys under their wing.

If you’re a good self learner, the guys here have a lot of depth and breadth to their shooting and rifle set ups. I’ve always been a fan of copying someone who is good at the type of shooting you want to do - copy their form, techniques, and rifle exactly. After you master that, then get a different rifle if you want something more personalized. A Rokslide special in 223 is not a bad way to start. The shooting drills Form likes to use are good ones.

More than anything, get a rifle and dry fire and shoot it as much as possible - 1000 rounds of good practice (a box a week) and another 1000 dry firing spread out over a year will really change a person. You might also look into a guided varmint hunt or two if the budget is there. A hundred rounds a day at prairie dogs is not unheard of and guys that love to shoot them often have very nice long range rifles and usually enjoy sharing knowledge.