Research, F&G, and biologist.

[nickstevens2588]

I live in Montana and I've always just got out in the mountains and did my best to find elk and close to gap to harvest. Often times unsuccessful.
I hear so many guys talk about doing there research and speaking to biologists and F&G about areas they plan to hunt.
What questions are you that do this asking?
When you use on-x and google earth, what are you looking for? Parks for feeding, water, areas miles away from the roads, what else?
For all the guys that speak of researching an area prior to getting out and scouting it, what information are you looking for?
I have an area I started hunting last season and I know it holds elk but I havent figured out their patterns yet. This part I know just takes more time in the area but what info are you guys seeking out to give you an upper hand on an area?

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[darcytribe]

Randy Newberg has a good series on YouTube about e-scouting that will explain a lot about what to look for and why.

 

[nickstevens2588]

Yes I've watched them. I guess the most important part of my post was the part about speaking to biologists and F&G. Also what others are doing as far as prep for going into a new area.

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[ElkNut1]

Here's some additional info under New Hunter Tips in the ElkNut APP!




Pick A Unit! OK, you've chosen a state, great! Now how do you choose a unit in that chosen state? Again, personal Intel is one way! Another way is to consider who's going elk hunting? Are you young, are you aged, is it a mixed group; Whatever the physical capabilities are in a group or a lone hunter consider the terrain you want or need to hunt! Some units or parts of units are steep and rugged where other areas may be more subtle and negotiable for one's age and fitness level. -- Consider calling the Fish & Game region for the part of the state that interests you. Let them know the physical conditioning of the group and what you're looking for in your hunt! Some folks want roaded areas so their ATV can be utilized while others want units that have few trails or roads so they can experience solitude with few to no hunters! These organizations can help you select areas that will fit your needs, those will be the units you want to focus on! Also be aware of any Private Land ownership's that may need to be avoided in certain units, they can also help with this! -- Do not ask questions like where are the elk or how many elk are in the area. How many hunters are there. These questions are what everyone asks, they are not going to give you any secret spot that they or their friends may hunt. Once you choose your unit do your homework in locating elk country! Water, feed and seclusion. This recipe for elk can be had 1/2 mile from roads to miles deep.


Topo Maps! Your next move is to select the proper maps for your desired area/units chosen! Pick up USGS 1-24000 7.5 minute UTM Grid Maps, these maps are great for ground navigation and will offer much detail of your section of unit chosen. Generally it will take 4-5 maps of your area to cover it well, it should offer you at least 6+ areas to consider to start your hunt! These maps are obtainable in the local town nearest your hunt like Hardware Stores/Sporting Goods Stores. If you cannot walk far locate areas on your maps just out of reach of roads or trails where if hunters called from them their sound wouldn't reach these areas just on the other side of hills or smaller mountains. -- If looking to go deeper with few limitations then look for flat Parks, Nice Draws and Basins with nearby water and steeper mountains leading away from these flatter bottoms for elk to bed on. You can mark desired spots on your maps and transfer them to a GPS device or Iphone with the right APP for later use once you get there.


There's tons more on the APP, it will refer best times to elk hunt, Bivy or Basecamp & Hunting/Calling Strategies for your dates chosen!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[idahohikker]

The app is awesome; Paul's advice is awesome.

You might ask a bio about an area that you've been looking at and see if the bio has any thoughts on whether it would or would not be likely to hold elk when you're hunting them. You might ask them about general characteristics of the places that elk hang out in a unit. Are they hitting private fields a lot? Are they avoiding super rocky areas in goat country? That kind of thing. Bios can be great but yes you really want to analyze your questions and like Paul said never ask where can I find the elk.

 

[nickstevens2588]

Thank you for the advice from everyone who has commented on this thread.
To be a bit more specific, I have already chosen the unit. Unfortunately I only decided to try the unit in the last weekend of archery season 2018. Only 2 days of boots on the ground to be specific. The sign of elk was everywhere I went. Tracks, rubs, beds, heavy game trails, and even a couple Close encounters through bugles and cow calls but only ever had eyes on the cows.
Since then, being new to the unit, fairly new to archery rut hunting (only rifle prior) and always trying to be a more successful hunter I started to try and do my Homework of the area. (This I've never really done) I've found info containing the total # of hunters, total # of archers, rifle hunters, the harvest #'s for cows, bulls 5pt and under, and bulls over 5pts for 2016-17. These numbers are pretty consistent. Which to me is a good sign paired with my experience in the unit. I have on-x so I know the private, public, and block management areas, the burn areas + dates, and almost all road access points. I've found a few different water sources near areas I was into the small heard I encountered and there are small-med parks spread throughout the unit.

I guess my original posted question comes from reading on here, watching videos/podcasts, and reading articles hearing guys talk about "doing your research" calling the biologists and F&G. And as I'm typing this I'm starting to think that I'm already on the right track and the "research" thing guys talk about is more for a guy new to an area/state with 0 time invested.
Though I have not made these phone calls I do appreciate the advice from you guys as to what I could ask and I will.

If anyone has any further advice as to how I can further my knowledge of the area and the animals within an area it is much appreciated....... What are guys looking for when reading an area map that tells them- This is where they wanna get to begin scouting! Why that ridge? Why that park? Why that water source apposed to the one on the other side of the unit? Lol.
Even if you've only read and have nothing to add, thanks for your time in advance!

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[Felix40]

Im going to tell you right now that F&G gets tons of calls from hunters every year asking where to hunt. Some guys may be willing to do your scouting for you and give you a lot of information but I wouldnt count on it. Ask about a specific area in regards to hunting pressure, road conditions, whether or not a specific spring actually has water, even trophy quality in a unit. The typical "does x canyon have elk in it?" isnt going to do anything but waste your time and theirs.

 

[nickstevens2588]

Thank you. This is the type of advice I'm looking for. I specifically will not be the 600th guy calling and asking the same stupid questions hoping for a lat. and lon. of the local heards current location. I'm more looking for questions to ask such as some of the ones mentioned to start a conversation with these people and see where it goes. If the people I talk to chose to share more info that's great. But I'm not looking for a handout. More along the lines of the science of the unit and there findings. Whatever that may be.

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[ElkNut1]

Nick, these areas you mention such as ridges, parks, water sources, basins, etc. are areas elk are known to inhabit. There aren't ones where elk are guaranteed to be found so you locate as many of those areas or similar areas you can in your given unit via your topos. Stay mobile & hunt from a basecamp it's easier to hit a variety of pre scouted areas from your map studies. Try to have at least a 1/2 dozen of them, as you check them out you will eventually locate elk! If the areas/unit is fairly open then glass from vantage points especially 2 -3 hours after daybreak & 2-3 hours before sunset. If your chosen unit is mostly dark timber then as an archery hunter you will need to call into these areas to locate their position. In any event, once elk are found get over to them & form a strategy be it calling or ambushing them.

Bud you really could use the APP, it covers all this & much more! Thanks!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[nickstevens2588]

Hey Paul, I've watched and listened to quite a bit from you and listened to both your appearances on the exo podcast. Great info both then and now! Thank you.
I was just glancing over your first reply to this thread and I'm not seeing the mentioned name of the app only the tools within it? Maybe I'm just blind lol.

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[cnelk]

Most biologists will give everyone the same standard info year after year. Thats why certain trailheads/areas are so popular.

 

[ElkNut1]

Nick, it's called the ElkNut APP! (grin)

I assume you are hunting basic OTC Public Land elk hunts, true? If so do not be overly concerned with herd size, 5-6 point stats, hunting pressure. Toss all of it out the window. Once unit is settled on look for areas as you mentioned earlier that are away from roads & trails, these spots will for the most part be void of hunters! No Roads, No Trails & No Hunters! As you seek out these areas elk inhabit look for the areas that there is no easy access to. It doesn't matter how many elk may be there or what they are, bottom line is they will be good elk! (grin)

Personally, I'm a caller, I locate nearly every bull every year on OTC elk hunts through Bugling, once I find ONE, I form a plan to move into position & call him in. Some bulls are easier than others to call but all are good candidates with the right tactic!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[nickstevens2588]

Thanks for your help Paul. I'll look into your app for sure.

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[ElkNut1]

Nick, my pleasure, let me know if you have any questions about the App. Thanks for checking out the podcasts too, I appreciate it bud!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[GPool1842]

Thanks for your help Paul. I'll look into your app for sure.

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Paul’s app is awesome for this information. I watched his videos that I had saved on my phone in my tent every night last fall. I was solo, so his voice was the only voice I heard for 9 days! I went to bed tired, but pumped up for the next day after his sequence lessons.

Get the app, it will help you on the mountain.