Remind me, archery shooting down hill ?

[Billy Goat]

You and your silly math.

@

 

[justin davis]

The best thing is to practice shots that are similar. See how your setup shoots. It feels pretty weird aiming at extreme angles. I’ve always had good luck with my Leica rangefinder giving me the correct yardage

 

[N2TRKYS]

Form is what gets most folks when shooting up or down hill, not the “calculated” distance. I’ve shot some pretty extreme angles over the years and never had a single issue as long as I bent at the waist.

Don’t over think it.

 

[Backyard]

Its not simple. Your applying a trigonometry method to a subsonic projectile without considering gravity. This is wrong.

There is an angle and yardage that the regular rangefinder is on. This is the Trigonometry method that all range finders use except the leupold RX4 full draw.

View attachment 224235

However. There is a point that your arrow will not follow the trigonometry method. This has to do with the arrow speed and the additional gravity on the arrow due to the time of flight. Gravity is constant but not figured into the standard trigonometry equation for most rangfinders. If it was you would have to enter the projectile speed into the range finder again like the leupold. With a supersonic bullet the effects are minimal at normal yardage. But with guns if you are taking a legit long range shot you probably are using a calculator to figure your dope with maths out the effects of gravity. With a 270 fps the effects compound over greater distance.

As it applies in the real world. If you are shooting out of a tree stand at 30 yards at 20 degree down angle meh you will probably be ok not cutting 3-5 yards. If you are shooting at an elk at 80 yards on a 35 degree down angle you will clean miss him to cutting 10-18 yards.

The correct way to do it is either figure out your cuts with archers advantage or pinwheel and shoot them in and make sure they are correct or get a leupold rx4 and shoot it in and make sure it is correct. If you want to be a lazy archer you can do the trionometry range finder method but know at a certian distance and angle you will be missing.

It's simple. Really. Range straight out horizontally. been doing it like this for years. Always hit my target. Was taught by an old timer years ago. But what ever works right?

 

[wayoh22]

Here's a CUT CHART that's an example. Remember that it is set up specific so don't use this one as it will be more than likely off. For my 558gr Axis 260 out of a 80lb RX4 29" DL

Just curious...you bring this into the woods with you and reference it before a shot? Or do you have a "slimmer" print out? Seems like it'd take a lot of time to find the angle of shot, reference that angle on that sheet, and then adjust accordingly.

Shot TAC the past two years and had no problem with my rangefinder doing the calculations for me at steep angles.

 

[Jimbob]

It's physics, there is no way around that. How much error you are willing to accept is up to you. If you shoot a 5" group and a shot is 2" off will you know? or will you just say "that works for me"?

The trig method, that almost every range finder uses, will work fine for most people and most shots. If you want the exact perfect yardage to shoot for then you need to take in all factors and use a software program and shoot it to verify.

1. You need the cut chart/software if you are an exceptional archer and/or taking long steep shots
2. You need the trig method if you are happy with kill zone shots and shooting at angles 20 degrees plus
3. A tree stand 10-20' off the ground shooting at deer on flat ground don't make much of any difference

 

[N2TRKYS]

I’ve never had a reason to use a rangefinder that had angle compensation on it.

 

[Reburn]

It's physics, there is no way around that. How much error you are willing to accept is up to you. If you shoot a 5" group and a shot is 2" off will you know? or will you just say "that works for me"?

The trig method, that almost every range finder uses, will work fine for most people and most shots. If you want the exact perfect yardage to shoot for then you need to take in all factors and use a software program and shoot it to verify.

1. You need the cut chart/software if you are an exceptional archer and/or taking long steep shots
2. You need the trig method if you are happy with kill zone shots and shooting at angles 20 degrees plus
3. A tree stand 10-20' off the ground shooting at deer on flat ground don't make much of any difference

I'm with you. I'm gonna stay in the aim small miss small camp.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I'm gonna stay in the aim small miss small camp.

I’m in that camp, as well.

 

[Nick Muche]

Great thread with a lot of good information.

 

[cjdewese]

As a new archery hunter this year I have been going through this a bunch in my head. I'm a math nerd so it makes sense to me but every place I hunt locally is STEEP like 45 degrees or more steep at times so seeing some of these charts is really helpful. Been practicing bending at the waist as I hold my form in preparation for making a steep shot at an animal if necessary. Ranging straight out when I can has helped but it's not always feasible so knowing all of this is helpful. Good thread and thanks from a newbie archery hunter.

 

[Hoot]

I fancy myself as a math nerd as well....

never built a cut chart, trig method is fine for me, but i also will cut a few extra yards if it is a steeper angle, usually just by gut feel. example, angle compensated range finder says to aim for 50 but its pretty steep, i might dial my sight to 45-46...

range level distance also works well, if there are tree tops etc that you can range to get your straight level distance.

as said above, the best thing to do is practice.

 

[n8saki]

Just curious...you bring this into the woods with you and reference it before a shot? Or do you have a "slimmer" print out? Seems like it'd take a lot of time to find the angle of shot, reference that angle on that sheet, and then adjust accordingly.

Shot TAC the past two years and had no problem with my rangefinder doing the calculations for me at steep angles.

No it’s to verify especially at steeper inclines as I don’t believe my RF is on past 30 degrees. I have a Sig Kilo, but I think the Leupold Fulldraw 4 does the Archers Advantage calculations.

I’m ok with the Sig Kilo output as I believe my skillset as an archer has more to improve.

 

[Sled]

I’ve never had a reason to use a rangefinder that had angle compensation on it.

it makes a difference when you are shooting 70 yards LOS and 40-50 degrees. that's a pretty tall tree for alabama.

 

[wayoh22]

No it’s to verify especially at steeper inclines as I don’t believe my RF is on past 30 degrees. I have a Sig Kilo, but I think the Leupold Fulldraw 4 does the Archers Advantage calculations.

I’m ok with the Sig Kilo output as I believe my skillset as an archer has more to improve.

Genuinely asking here...I understand the importance and why you would use a cut chart. However, just to make sure I understand this entirely what is the practical use of the cut chart outside of practicing shots? I can see its full potential use whilst say sheep hunting and you're above the sheep on a steep angle where you potentially have time to range and set up a shot. Outside of something similar to that, when would you use it in a hunting scenario? Or is it more-so just to verify that your rangefinder is outputting correct distances that you can accept and use so that in the field you can have peace of mind?

 

[n8saki]

Or is it more-so just to verify that your rangefinder is outputting correct distances that you can accept and use so that in the field you can have peace of mind?

Precisely what you’re saying - confidence when hunting. 5 yards off is easily a miss especially at distance for me. Nothing worse than hunting without confidence in your gear.

Most RFs already do the calculation, but on the steeper angles I check my cut chart against the RF output that I have saved on my phone.

 

[Reburn]

Genuinely asking here...I understand the importance and why you would use a cut chart. However, just to make sure I understand this entirely what is the practical use of the cut chart outside of practicing shots? I can see its full potential use whilst say sheep hunting and you're above the sheep on a steep angle where you potentially have time to range and set up a shot. Outside of something similar to that, when would you use it in a hunting scenario? Or is it more-so just to verify that your rangefinder is outputting correct distances that you can accept and use so that in the field you can have peace of mind?

Thats what were talking about with the trig method that range finders use VS a true cut sheet. The trig method doesnt account for gravity while a program generated cut sheet does. At some point ballistics will diverge from what the range finder is telling you. Its different for everybow as its a speed = time of flight deal. A 280 fps bow the trig method will be good for longer then a 230 fps bow. You can math it by figuring out the sides of a right triangle on when your arrow will no longer fly like your range finder says.

I personally wear one of these with my cut chart in it when I know I'm going to be hunting steep country. Now this isnt hunting out of a tree stand 20' off the ground. This is a legit 35-40 degree country which is steep as heck. I need all the help I can get as holding my form correct at 40 degrees down is a challenge of itself.

https://www.amazon.com/WristCoaches-Wrist-Coach-Wristbands-Compartments/dp/B013ONQJSG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1WFDWNO7OK7VP&dchild=1&keywords=quarterback+play+wristband&qid=1602798770&sprefix=quarterback%2Caps%2C237&sr=8-5

 

[N2TRKYS]

it makes a difference when you are shooting 70 yards LOS and 40-50 degrees. that's a pretty tall tree for alabama.

Don’t get it twisted. I hunt stepper places here than I elk hunt in Wyoming.
Nice try, though.

 

[Opah]

 

[Sled]

Don’t get it twisted. I hunt stepper places here than I elk hunt in Wyoming.
Nice try, though.

Yeah, couldn't resist the opportunity to bust balls. Just messing with ya. I'm from louisiana myself.