Reload vs factory for accuracy

[Air Bear]

You are mostly correct that at what I consider normal hunting ranges ES and SD don’t matter all that much. That said I do a lot of competition shooting, imo it’s the only way to really test yourself. In that setting it matters. There are plenty of guys on here playing in the world of long range hunting where half a mil matters.

1moa consistency isn’t the problem. 1moa precision is a whole different story. Shooting moa at 500 yards somewhere on paper is no different than shooting it at 100, assuming decently consistent conditions. Hitting a 5” plate at 500 yards consistently, becomes very difficult with even a whisper of wind. If we want to discuss hitting smaller targets even sub 600, then yes all this stuff matters.

Here’s one for you, last year I shot an nrl hunter match with factory Berger, from a tikka barreled action. Here’s an attached 10 round group I used to set my zero. This ammo was easily the most accurate factory ammo I have ever fired, it also had an ES of 90 for the 20 rounds I fired that day.

View attachment 938809


I used that combination at an nrl hunter event. One stage had targets at 950ish yards, don’t remember exactly. Assuming this rifle is .5moa accurate, which I already know I can’t do on the clock. I’m looking at 8.1-8.7 mils I’m my velocity window. .6mils of elevation difference throughout the day means missed targets potentially that I have zero control over. This is just one example of many. Guys winning these matches now a days are not missing many targets.

Regarding your batch of frontier, how many boxes do you have of that lot number? Because that’s all that data matters for. Your next lot could be 4moa and 100fps slower. 1.2” groups at your home range are only world class shooting on Rokslide.

I’m in a world where guys are shooting barrels out per year. Even a light year for me just shooting casual 1 day matches I have put 1200 rounds through one rifle since march. In a competitive rifle setting I wouldn’t even consider a 1.2-1.5moa rifle, it would just be frustrating. In a hunting scenario to the ranges I am confident to they are doable. That being said I am way more confident with my rifles that shoot better, and they give me more margin for error on my part, whether it matters or not is up to the individual.

I do agree reloading isn’t for everyone. For someone trying to gain more from their ammo it can be, if they are willing to invest in the equipment and the knowledge. For me it saves me thousands of dollars a year, but eats up significant time.

I am thinking that perhaps I didn’t realize it when starting this thread, but maybe i am on the cusp of wanting/needing to switch from factory ammunition to reloading. I started this thread stating 1.25 moa, but i have seen myself do much better with certain lots of the right ammo. I just want to see that precision more consistently.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I have been reloading everything I shoot (except rimfire) for over 65 years. I reload wildcats and factory calibers. Used to be I could always get better accuracy out of my reloads that factory ammo. Probably no so today, but I'll keep loading my own until I quit shooting. I can afford to buy ammo, but using my own, custom made for each rifle, gives me satisfaction that I know that every round of ammunition is as close to the same as I can make it and performs that way too.

 

[Kimber7man]

I reload because I shoot 6.5GAP4S (aka SAUM) and 7SAUM. Try finding readily available, affordable factory loads with quality bullets for those.

 

[Air Bear]

I reload because I shoot 6.5GAP4S (aka SAUM) and 7SAUM. Try finding readily available, affordable factory loads with quality bullets for those.

That is something i consider. I would really consider 7saum if it was available on the shelf. It is something that pushes me to consider reloading

 

[Kimber7man]

That is something i consider. I would really consider 7saum if it was available on the shelf. It is something that pushes me to consider reloading

Yeah you can get overpriced Nosler stuff that’s loaded to 2.825” COAL for a short action, but that’s about it unless you go custom with Unknown or others.
ADG brass works very well in mine.

 

[ddowning]

This isn’t directed at you, since what you say makes sense, but I think a lot of people just aren’t used to how good some factory ammo can be. And more just don’t understand how little minor inconsistencies matter at normal hunting ranges. Are people justifiably worried that one shot is 3150, the next is 3191 and the next is 3110? I think not.

I am duly impressed by any shooter/rifle/ammo combination that can consistently produce 1-MOA 10-shot groups out to 500 yards.

The first batch of Frontier 5.56 I got had an SD of 12.3 over 40 rounds. And it was coming out 100 FPS faster than the box velocity from my 16.1” Tikka. The aggregate group for those 40 rounds was 1.2”. World class shooting? Hardly. But more than good enough for me. I can only hope that the second batch of that ammo is as consistently accurate. If it turns out to be great, maybe I will buy enough for a year or two? But there will always be an element of uncertainty. That uncertainty almost certainly won’t matter to most shooters at normal hunting ranges.

There’s always an experimental element to shooting and the law of diminishing returns always applies. Whether that is working up a new load or finding a good batch of ammo. I grew up reloading. I like reloading. But it’s not for everyone.

And I have come to believe that it doesn’t make sense for high volume non-professional shooters or low volume shooters. To me, reloading starts to make sense for a shooter who is firing at least 500 short, long, or magnum center fire shots a year. That’s enough volume to justify the initial expense of the equipment and probably enough practice to justify the pursuit of better accuracy. But once you start talking about spending more money on equipment and more time doing it, I think it’s better to outsource it.

If you aren’t going to burn an 8-pound keg of powder in a year or two, it’s probably not worth reloading (I get roughly 130-140 long action rounds per pound of powder).

Edit - but also… what is wasted about firing 10 rounds out of 200 to confirm group size and POI and then firing 10 more to confirm your new zero if you have to adjust?

If you only need a new zero to shoot 400 yards or less then buying 2 boxes of factory when you need ammo is fine. If you want to shoot past 400 maybe and past 600 definitely you need to confirm bc and velocity and velocity vs temp. The further you shoot the more important it becomes. Also,the smaller the target the more important it becomes. Coyotes are harder to hit at distance than elk.

You are not wrong that ammo loaded with a Lee dipper will work for most people. A lot of people come to these forums with questions because they see guys making consistent hits at distance and want to know how they are doing it. My neighbor has a 50 bmg and more gadgets than I have. He has no idea how to get the gadgets to work for him. He wants to shoot to 1 mile, which I have done multiple times (steel) with a 243AI and 115 dtacs. He has not asked for my help yet, so I have not been a know it all and offered.

Shooting a deer or elk at 400 is worlds away from shooting steel at a mile. You can hand an experienced shooter a rifle with a duplex reticle, a box of ammo, and let him zero at 100 and the deer at 400 is in a lot of trouble. No need to reload. For a guy trying to figure out how to shoot a deer at 600 or 800 yards, he's probably going to want to reload or buy a whole barrels worth of ammo. He has multiple barrels worth of practice to be able to build the skills to consistently hit a deer at 800 yards in much wind or terrain.

 

[wind gypsy]

Primary benefits of reloading for the hunter:
1. Shoot the bullet you want, possibly a bit faster and more accurately as lots of times a desired bullet is not available in a factory load
2. Dont have to deal with lot to lot variance and deal with buying shitty lots of ammo
3. If you actually want to shoot a lot and do so especially with cartridges that cost $3/rd for factory ammo, it is more economical.