Reintroduce Grizzlies into CA

[MattB]

Ah, some of the same people who deplore ballot box biology line up behind the reintroduction of another apex predator to a state that is already suffering from predator protection. What a bunch of Kens.

 

[TheTone]

Whoever writes up the petition/management plan should make sure it specifically excludes protections for bears that migrate out of CA

 

[flyinsquirel]

Is Ken the new male version of Karen? Cause this is CA and I can't believe you would gender profile people like that. Go ahead and sign yourself up for diversity, equity and inclusion training.

Ha!

 

[D_Dubya]

I guess now I’m rooting for the Grizz and the San Andreas fault to straighten the LA/SF situation out.

 

[Ucsdryder]

The only problem with this plan is that it would really mean introducing bears to the only parts of CA that don't suck...the rural areas where people are generally not insane. If we could concentrate the bears in LA and SF I think this would be great for conservation of the grizz!

Stick them in Yosemite. Solve all the problems because the tree huggers have screwed that place up. It would be perfect.

 

[Moserkr]

@amassi 10 million new gun owners in the past few years but not due to g bears…. Im sure you’re right that it wont help. So maybe they will just get eaten, who knows

@MattB Id say I deplore ballot box biloogy but I dont write the rules, just playing by them. And yes why not protect a predator in a state that you cant hunt them, to help open up hunting in the states you can?? If Im ken, then riddle me that karen…. Its a numbers game and they cant be hunted because they arent “recovered” ie need more population.

Unfortunately we wouldnt have any say in a management plan or placement of reintroduction unless we have very strong lawyers who dictate it as a condition to receive funds. I am not opposed to them being in the sierras either though. Let em fo everywhere. Definitely let them be hunted in NV or Oregon if they make it there - CADFW has no say in those states so its up to the residents there to fight for it.

 

[Moserkr]

And yes the true CA subspecies is extinct. The current griz are close enough for me, and surely close enough for people who reintroduce huge canadian wolves into a place that they never existed.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Sounds like a great idea, until it's not. I don't know what kind of numbers they would bring in but, sooner or later they will multiply and with Cal. being an anti-hunter state, who know where the numbers would go. Better gives this idea some serious thought.

 

[amassi]

While we're introducing close enough species I'd like some red stag, roe deer, axis deer, kudu, impala, oryx, Caribou, mtn goats, columbia river whitetail, Dall and stone sheep please and thank you.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[GSPHUNTER]

While we're introducing close enough species I'd like some red stag, roe deer, axis deer, kudu, impala, oryx, Caribou, mtn goats, columbia river whitetail, Dall and stone sheep please and thank you.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Shouldn't be a problem.

 

[BeastOfTheTrees]

Probably the greatest idea I’ve ever seen. I think their native historical range of the Hollywood hills would be a perfect area for reintroduction. Hell, Silicon Valley could be the next valley of the bears…….. could one imagine, it would be music yo my ears to listen to those broadcasts

 

[Marble]

I know most of this thread is in jest. I smile at the thought of a grizzly chasing people out of the woods...

It doesn't matter if we have every apex predator here in CA. The biggest enemy of our hunting rights and the conservation of our natural animal resources are the very people that claim to want to protect them. The fish and game commission. They are not geared towards increasing, preserving or promoting or actually managing any of the species that are thought of as a "sporting" species like dee, elk, antelope and bear.

They do not create policies with the hook and bullet crowd views in mind. It's all politics. Has been for a long time.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[Moserkr]

100% @Marble That is exactly how it is. Looking at some of the leaders history in CADFW, and massive conflicts of interest with animal rights groups, easily show why CA game management is in the tank. Its not even fish and game…. Now its fish and wildlife. Even the few hunters we know in the forest service and dfw have to keep quiet or, as they say, there is no future for them. So a few griz could give them something to actually manage besides fenced in tule elk on, wait for it, grizzly island?! Yup, real close to that big old golden bridge too.

Griz are an apex predator like mtn lions and wolves. With so many black bears, which i believe are not an apex species, the griz could help us manage them. We cant without dogs, bait, or a spring season with so few hunters. Which could help deer. It may force elk to expand into more of their historic range. Who knows. I just dont see enough negatives.

Poll is still overwhelmingly in favor. If we are true conservationists, wouldnt we want all species restored to historic ranges? In the case of wolves the correct subspecies would have been nice. I lived in MT during the reintroduction and saw the annihilation firsthand. I hate what the wolves did too but it was our (humans) fault. If hunters drove that reintroduction fight would it have been done correctly?? Griz dont spread as fast as wolves by any means, and arent going to scorch earth their environment. Just thinking aloud.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

Can't support this.
MORE will leave the sunshine state.
I want them to enjoy their sunshine.

 

[Moserkr]

Can't support this.
MORE will leave the sunshine state.
I want them to enjoy their sunshine.

Or maybe they wont have to leave to see the griz in MT, ID, and WY?? High taxes and a ridiculous cost of living are driving people out. Y’all just need to stop selling them houses. With 40+ million in the state, they could literally lose 1% (400,000) and take over the few good states in no time, which they are. For comparison, we only lost .05% last year which was 200,000k and you know where they went. If you’re selling your house, please vet your migrating Californians before letting them settle in your state…. We have a lot of good people leaving here that hate CA way more than anyone who hasnt lived here ever could though.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

Or maybe they wont have to leave to see the griz in MT, ID, and WY?? High taxes and a ridiculous cost of living are driving people out. Y’all just need to stop selling them houses. With 40+ million in the state, they could literally lose 1% (400,000) and take over the few good states in no time, which they are. For comparison, we only lost .05% last year which was 200,000k and you know where they went. If you’re selling your house, please vet your migrating Californians before letting them settle in your state…. We have a lot of good people leaving here that hate CA way more than anyone who hasnt lived here ever could though.

Selling houses: That ain't going to happen. That train is full steam down a steep gradient and the brakes have failed! Too many builders getting fat pockets.

I get it. Sell your house for a ton and move somewhere else with a better quality of life and pay cash for your house. I cringe when I see CA plates. Honestly, never had a bad experience with a Californian. The plate represents growth in my state which I don't like. The small town feel is gone. Good for them bad for me.

I'll probably move again searching for that small town feel. When I find that small town they probably won't want me there either. HAHA.

 

[Hoghead]

100% @Marble That is exactly how it is. Looking at some of the leaders history in CADFW, and massive conflicts of interest with animal rights groups, easily show why CA game management is in the tank. Its not even fish and game…. Now its fish and wildlife. Even the few hunters we know in the forest service and dfw have to keep quiet or, as they say, there is no future for them. So a few griz could give them something to actually manage besides fenced in tule elk on, wait for it, grizzly island?! Yup, real close to that big old golden bridge too.

Griz are an apex predator like mtn lions and wolves. With so many black bears, which i believe are not an apex species, the griz could help us manage them. We cant without dogs, bait, or a spring season with so few hunters. Which could help deer. It may force elk to expand into more of their historic range. Who knows. I just dont see enough negatives.

Poll is still overwhelmingly in favor. If we are true conservationists, wouldnt we want all species restored to historic ranges? In the case of wolves the correct subspecies would have been nice. I lived in MT during the reintroduction and saw the annihilation firsthand. I hate what the wolves did too but it was our (humans) fault. If hunters drove that reintroduction fight would it have been done correctly?? Griz dont spread as fast as wolves by any means, and arent going to scorch earth their environment. Just thinking aloud.

If you could count on correct management of a species that would be one thing. In California the one thing you can count on is mismanagement that is a recipe for failure. If you take the hope the state dose its job out of the equation.knowing it won't be managed correctly would you still want them here? I think if you say yes your not being honest with your self and still putting faith in the state management. I know I quoted your post but an not trying to single you out. I am speaking to the bring them in and hope they get managed correctly people.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[Moserkr]

If you could count on correct management of a species that would be one thing. In California the one thing you can count on is mismanagement that is a recipe for failure. If you take the hope the state dose its job out of the equation.knowing it won't be managed correctly would you still want them here? I think if you say yes your not being honest with your self and still putting faith in the state management. I know I quoted your post but an not trying to single you out. I am speaking to the bring them in and hope they get managed correctly people.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

All good hoghead, here to hear both sides of the coin. I agree 100% that they will be mismanaged, just like everything else in the state. We can count on that without any doubt. I honestly think the griz wont suffer from the mismanagement, pretty sure they will thrive as any apex species would. The worse thing that could happen is deer suffer, but do g bears really go after deer that much? Ive seen a doe blacktail jump up a 20’, 80* steep embankment in 2 strides. It was basically a cliff. No bear is catching her., so adults deer, no threat. Id argue that the g bears help manage the black bears which are already unmanageable by us hunters, which in turn could (key word) help deer. Im sure black bears already have a massive impact on fawns which is one reason I hunt them. Hurting deer populations seems to be the biggest con and i dont disagree. It is absolutely a risk.

So question is, will g bears displace and reduce black bear populations and decrease overall bear numbers, or will they coexist and create an even larger bear problem? If it creates a larger issue, then yes i agree thats bad. But I dont think it will. Griz will kill adult black bears and young. This is also completely counting out any management by humans since we agree that there will be basically zero oversight.

 

[Hoghead]

I don't have enough knowledge about grizzlies and black bear coexistence. I would think there are other guys here that might know. They are in a few states together.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[Azone]

All good hoghead, here to hear both sides of the coin. I agree 100% that they will be mismanaged, just like everything else in the state. We can count on that without any doubt. I honestly think the griz wont suffer from the mismanagement, pretty sure they will thrive as any apex species would. The worse thing that could happen is deer suffer, but do g bears really go after deer that much? Ive seen a doe blacktail jump up a 20’, 80* steep embankment in 2 strides. It was basically a cliff. No bear is catching her., so adults deer, no threat. Id argue that the g bears help manage the black bears which are already unmanageable by us hunters, which in turn could (key word) help deer. Im sure black bears already have a massive impact on fawns which is one reason I hunt them. Hurting deer populations seems to be the biggest con and i dont disagree. It is absolutely a risk.

So question is, will g bears displace and reduce black bear populations and decrease overall bear numbers, or will they coexist and create an even larger bear problem? If it creates a larger issue, then yes i agree thats bad. But I dont think it will. Griz will kill adult black bears and young. This is also completely counting out any management by humans since we agree that there will be basically zero oversight.

How are grizzlies interacting in the Rockies with black bears?
Also if the bears were far enough south on the coast do you think they would hibernate?
If bears were not hibernating and were feeding year round instead of taking the winter long nap wouldn’t that increase impacts on deer?
Having grizzlies will definitely scare a lot of people out of the hills. I’d guess they would really solve crowding issues at trail heads. I know some people who get nervous hearing coyotes howl, a grizzly would paralyze them with fear.