Reduced Loads Questions

[KSTiger]

Question for you more experienced reloaders.

I’ve seen people who reload say they can take their magnums and “load down” to a non-magnum counterpart of the same caliber. For example, taking a 7mm Rem Mag and reducing the load to get performance similar to a 7mm-08 or with a 300 WSM and reducing the load to get performance similar to a 308.

Is this really a viable strategy? Couldn’t the lower case fill on the reduced loads have the powder “sloshing” around more resulting in larger deviations in velocity. As a result, hurting “hunting level” accuracy?

Are they using a different powder that still has a decent case fill?

Any info from the more experience would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[lennywd87]

On reduced loads a filler of some kind (cream of wheat) can be used to fill case capacity to alleviate the issues of empty case space.


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[lennywd87]

This is an area that takes intense research to avoid a detonation situation and should not be taken lightly at all. What are you looking to gain with it?

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[Actual_Cryptid]

When I load a reduced load i prefer to look for a powder with a higher fill volume, because that both mitigates some of the ignition concerns and the potential for an accidental double charge. I don't load any reduced power magnum catridges right now though, if it's time to shoot .300WM i shoot .300WM, if I need less I switch to the ,308 or the .30-30 or another caliber.

For my money, unless you're chasing bugnuts accuracy at distance you're probably just as well off grabbing a second rifle for reduced load situations. The exception is the older cartidges built for cast bullets and black powder, or guns where the shooting a reduced load means you get to shoot more and bugnuts accuracy isn't a requirement.

 

[Diamondback]

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

Hodgdon conventional powder reduced loads with H4895 as example above.
They give you their Ph# on that PDF to call and talk to their people on reduced loads and what is safe for what rifle caliber and powder you are shooting.

Personally, I would just use a 30-30 that kicks about 10 lbs recoil with a 130gr Speer FP bullet or a 308 Win with H4895 with above reduced H4895 load with 125gr Speer TNT bullet that is common for sale even during these times. That Speer TNT will mushroom and deform fine at lower velocities down to 1500fps.

Hodgdon website has online load data to look at.

 

[MattB]

H4895 is a really interesting powder that way, I used it for reduced recoil loads for my daughter and it shot really well. I seem to recall that the max load was ~36 grs. for the bullet weight she was shooting and I got great results ~20% below that.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/site/ballisticstudies/files/Hodgdon%20H4895%20reduced%20load%20data.pdf

 

[nhyrum]

The way I get reduced loads is by using a different powder that will get me more of a case fill than I'd get by just cutting the load down. I really don't like loads that can fit a double charge in the case. Yes, it should be spotted, but I like the added safety of physically not being able to fit the charge

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[83cj-7]

Years back I did quite a bit of testing with H4895 with my .300 WM. I was able to make reduced loads with 150s and 165s. Several loads were amazingly accurate and I got anywhere 30-30 to 30-06 speeds. Rifle was a cream puff to shoot.

H4895 is really easy to work with. You can reduce any H4895 max load by 60%. The cool thing is that velocity seems linear to the percentage you reduce the load. Example would be a max load listed as 60 grains and 2850 FPS. Multiply the 60 grains by .6 = 36 and multiply the 2850 by .6 = 1710 FPS. It always seemed to track fairly true and it was easy to use a little math to find a charge weight that got the velocity you were looking for.

 

[Zappaman]

Search for "seafire" on the 24hourcampfire forum for ALL the reduced load data you'd want. I've used a LOT of his reduced loads in many calibers and he's the wizard on this subject (who backs his loads up with REAL data)-- he's respected and he's done the work and proved it!

I use his RL7 and Blue Dot reduced loads in a lot of my guns... don't get caught up in the "lawyer" BS! There are PLENTY of powders you can shoot reduced- but SOME you don't want to as well. Seafire is the man! Check him out.

 

[hodgeman]

I've done reduced loads with H4895 and Trailboss in a variety of cartridges... very easy to work with either, although H4895 is considerably easier to find most places.

 

[Steve O]

Yes. H4895. I was going to buy a 22 barrel for my Blaser until I decided to try a 60g .244 bullet with some H4895 reduced loads. Have not chronod but they are dead on at 100 where my 95g bullets were 2” high. Perfect, cheap, and I can’t perceive any recoil.

 

[KSTiger]

Thanks to everybody for the info. Given my reloading skill level, I think it would be wise for me to just have 2 rifles (300 WM and 308 or 7 RM and 7mm08) rather than trying to fit the spectrum of performance all into one rifle/cartridge.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

Modern Reloading Second Edition by Richard Lee is a good resource for this. End of Chapter 10 is a great discussion on reduced loads, and how to use the data in the book to calculate reduced loads for the specified bullet/charge. I also just ran across this in the Speer data for the 358 Norma Mag and also a good article that goes into it in Handloader.

 

[MattB]

H4895 is really easy to work with. You can reduce any H4895 max load by 60%. The cool thing is that velocity seems linear to the percentage you reduce the load. Example would be a max load listed as 60 grains and 2850 FPS. Multiply the 60 grains by .6 = 36 and multiply the 2850 by .6 = 1710 FPS. It always seemed to track fairly true and it was easy to use a little math to find a charge weight that got the velocity you were looking for.

I believe it is reduce "to" 60%, not "by" 60% (which would be a 40% load).

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

 

[A382DWDZQ]

Just ran through the numbers on a 7mm Rem Mag with 130gr Jacketed Bullet on from MR2nd ed. for IMR-4064 and H4350. I'm not going to show my math because this is an example only and anyone reading this should read the book, understand it, and run their own numbers and calculate their own risk tolerance for trying it out.

By my calculations, IMR-4064, almost the fastest burning powder for this load, could be reduced from a max pressure of 59,600 PSI and 3,048 fps to a pressure of minimum pressure of 27,529 and velocity to minimum velocity of 2,331. For H4350, which is midway in the range of powder speeds for this load, I calculated that it could be reduced from a max pressure of 59,592 and 3,082 fps to a minimum pressure to 34,605 and minimum velocity of 2,537 fps.

 

[Diamondback]

Thanks to everybody for the info. Given my reloading skill level, I think it would be wise for me to just have 2 rifles (300 WM and 308 or 7 RM and 7mm08) rather than trying to fit the spectrum of performance all into one rifle/cartridge.

A 270 Win with IMR 7977 can be loaded to 2950fps with 150gr bullet or down to 2500fps or less low recoil. Shooting bonded bullets, it is 100fps slower than a 7mm Rem Mag in power as an older cartridge with a few tricks of lower recoil and no expensive cases for hunting. A 270 or 30-06 are a sweet spot before magnums to download or hot load with their case capacity on using slower powders with case fill being 100%. In 30-06 with 180gr bullet 2850fps with Winchester StaBALL 6.5 powder match a 300 Win Mag in FPS.
No game will be able to tell the difference.

So you can use them with slower powders shooting reduced loads. You can hot load them to just at magnum FPS loads with faster powders. They allow both areas due to their case capacity sweet spot.

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2020-burn-rate-chart.pdf

Here is an easy recoil table to look at aspects of recoil factors.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Firearms and Ammunition for Hunting in Alaska, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Information on hunting and trapping in Alaska.

www.adfg.alaska.gov

What Alaska Fish Game says about hunting calibers and cartridges.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

So you can use them with slower powders shooting reduced loads. You can hot load them to just at magnum FPS loads with faster powders. They allow both areas due to their case capacity sweet spot.

I think you mean you can load to magnum FPS loads with a larger charge of slower burning (faster velocity) powders to get to magnum FPS?

 

[Diamondback]

This is what I mean:

If you take a 223 case with 55gr bullet and load 26gr H4831 powder it will case fill it to 100% and give you 2200ish fps below 40K low PSI as example.

If I take that same case and use Varget at 26gr it will case fill above 95% and give me 3100+ fps higher 52K+ PSI near optimal case fill and velocity as example of faster burning listed powder.
You have to look at powder burn charts extruded powders and compare burn rate / case fill aspects.

30-06 and 270 Win at 100% case fill of US869 or H50BMG is not going to max velocity or PSI on either.
You would need a faster burning powder. With the market so screwed up on obtaining reloading powder, there is more than one way to skin a cat depending on what powder is available to shoot reduced loads. That's really what I meant.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

When you said:

You can hot load them to just at magnum FPS loads with faster powders.

I just think it is more accurate to say that you can hot load them to just at magnum FPS loads with max charges of slower burning powders (published loads). Trying to use a faster burning powder to get to magnum FPS would be a bad idea. For example, max load of IMR-4320 on 270 Win with a 150gr Nos. PT is 45gr which gets 2,810fps. That is 88% full case, so case would hold 57gr of IMR-4320, but I would not want anyone to think that they could load up more of a faster burning powder to try and get that combination up to the Magnum FPS velocities like the 2,900+ that the slower burning IMR-7977 would give. I think it is the use of "faster powders" that was confusing for me. If you're saying IMR-7977 is faster compared to US869 or H50BMG, yes, but for the example of the 30-06 and the 270, I would not call IMR-7977 a faster (burning) powder.