Redding body die issue?

huntsd

WKR
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
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I run the Redding small base body die in my 223 and 6.5 cm. After 1x firing I set the shoulders back .002” and lock die ring. I use a forester co ax. I run a few pieces through the press and none come out .002”. The range from being set back .003”-.001”.

Any suggestions?
 
Some brass is more inconsistent than others. Annealing every time can reduce differences in spring back do to hardness variations. Lube thickness variations will change set back as will thickness of lube built up in die - lube is not required on the shoulder or neck so if your method spreads it all over maybe try just lubing the sides of the case. Measuring less than .001” increments with dial calipers will have some inconsistencies. Measuring with lube on the shoulder will cause different readings.
 
As an example of measuring accuracy, some imperial sizing wax on the face of a dial caliper jaw doesn’t seem to change the measurement at all. Same wax on a .0001” micrometer shows .0002” thickness and that’s when squishing out the sides. If paper towels are used to wipe cases, the fibers left over measure .0003”. Same lube on a shoulder with no place to go will push back like a hydraulic ram - the more lube, the greater the pushback and it will be uneven because some shoulders will form very shallow dents and others will not.

As an extreme example put a butt ton of lube on a few shoulders and you’ll see them all over the place length wise and the dents will be obvious. Of course clean the die afterward. 🙂
 
Thanks. I should have said I measured the brass before hand. They all expanded to the same dimension in my chamber. I am using mitutoyo calipers and alpha brass and imperial die wax.
 
are they still 1x fired? how many pieces did you use to determine that the initial bump was .002? and most importantly of all, after sizing do they all chamber?
 
are they still 1x fired? how many pieces did you use to determine that the initial bump was .002? and most importantly of all, after sizing do they all chamber?
yes 1x fired still. Measured 6 pieces after firing all the same dimension. Cranked die down to get one piece .002 back. Locked ring. Next few pieces came out .001 to .003 and in between. A couple came back perfect at .002

Yes all fit in chamber. They fit without running them through body die
 
sometimes it has to do with inconsistent anneal/case hardness, normally gets worse with more firings. sometimes it's slop in the press/die, could also be inconsistent case lube.
Agree with all of this.

I think you'll always have at least +/- a thou variance, but I can say for myself switching to homemade lanolin/alcohol lube made the sizing operation smoother and more consistent than anything else I've tried.
 
Agree with all of this.

I think you'll always have at least +/- a thou variance, but I can say for myself switching to homemade lanolin/alcohol lube made the sizing operation smoother and more consistent than anything else I've tried.

How do you spray it on cases to ensure uniform'ish coverage? Think i'll start another thread on this as i'm in the process of switching to Lanolin/alcohol from one shot.
 
How do you spray it on cases to ensure uniform'ish coverage? Think i'll start another thread on this as i'm in the process of switching to Lanolin/alcohol from one shot.
I use a small plastic trash bag, like for a home office sized trash bin. Throw up to 100 cases in the bag. Take the spray bottle and spray 3-4 shots onto the sides of the bag above the brass. You could probably spray the interior of the bag first and then dump the cases in. Close and hold the top of the bag. Grab bottom of bag and swish cases in bag side to side and all around. Do this for 30 seconds or so? Mby longer? Open up top of bag and let it sit for 5-10 minutes to let the IPA flash off. Longer is fine too. I dump the cases into a metal mixing bowl and start sizing. Very consistent and almost zero variability in the sizing.
 
The die needs to hit the shell holder and the press "cam over" to get consistent stroke length and remove all backlash in the system. Doing so may require competition shell holders.
That said, .002 +- .001 is pretty darn good.
 
Thanks all. I am starting to think it’s a press issue. I went to seat bullets last night and is seat one to the desired length. The next would be seated .005 deeper the following would be .001 less ect…

I am using a co ax so there are no shell holders
 
How do you spray it on cases to ensure uniform'ish coverage? Think i'll start another thread on this as i'm in the process of switching to Lanolin/alcohol from one shot.
I use a small plastic trash bag, like for a home office sized trash bin. Throw up to 100 cases in the bag. Take the spray bottle and spray 3-4 shots onto the sides of the bag above the brass. You could probably spray the interior of the bag first and then dump the cases in. Close and hold the top of the bag. Grab bottom of bag and swish cases in bag side to side and all around. Do this for 30 seconds or so? Mby longer? Open up top of bag and let it sit for 5-10 minutes to let the IPA flash off. Longer is fine too. I dump the cases into a metal mixing bowl and start sizing. Very consistent and almost zero variability in the sizing.
This, I use a gallon ziplock bag and discard after because the Lanolin is sticky over time. Tumble brass in milled white rice is easiest way to de-lube.

The die needs to hit the shell holder and the press "cam over" to get consistent stroke length and remove all backlash in the system. Doing so may require competition shell holders.
That said, .002 +- .001 is pretty darn good.
None of my dies are set to cam over because I refuse to buy the competition shellholder set, I just pause for a second at the top of the sizing stroke and get very consistent results with proper lube.
 
I use a small plastic trash bag, like for a home office sized trash bin. Throw up to 100 cases in the bag. Take the spray bottle and spray 3-4 shots onto the sides of the bag above the brass. You could probably spray the interior of the bag first and then dump the cases in. Close and hold the top of the bag. Grab bottom of bag and swish cases in bag side to side and all around. Do this for 30 seconds or so? Mby longer? Open up top of bag and let it sit for 5-10 minutes to let the IPA flash off. Longer is fine too. I dump the cases into a metal mixing bowl and start sizing. Very consistent and almost zero variability in the sizing.

No concern about lubing inside necks? I've always sprayed cases in a loading block with oneshot at an angle that gets lube inside the necks. My expanders shouldn't be doing much work most of the time but it's just something I think about.
 
No concern about lubing inside necks? I've always sprayed cases in a loading block with oneshot at an angle that gets lube inside the necks. My expanders shouldn't be doing much work most of the time but it's just something I think about.
Nope not at all. I leave and count on the carbon in the necks for lube. For years I’ve run a nylon brush in to clean/polish the neck interior but currently I’m skipping that to test if that is even worthwhile. So far nothing has changed by skipping the brush. Oh and I don’t mandrel, just the bushing sizing. Previous testing says I get nothing extra out of a mandrel so I cut that out.
 
Nope not at all. I leave and count on the carbon in the necks for lube. For years I’ve run a nylon brush in to clean/polish the neck interior but currently I’m skipping that to test if that is even worthwhile. So far nothing has changed by skipping the brush. Oh and I don’t mandrel, just the bushing sizing. Previous testing says I get nothing extra out of a mandrel so I cut that out.

I can see why you wouldn't need any lube inside the neck if you're not expanding it at all but you're saying you didn't when you did expand? With an expander ball? I know some guys use carbide mandrels that need less lube.
 
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