Recourse for a Outfitted Hunt that was not what was advertised?

[KurtR]

Like I said, never had an experience like this never did an outfitted hunt before. I would not feel this way if I did not think there was some intentional deception, but I believe that was the case. Why should the people who inflated the realities of the hunt that I paid for not also deal with the consequences? The dude could have turned me away when I called him for the hunt and it was obvious I would have high expectations.

How often did you talk to then before you showed up to hunt?

 

[COelk89]

I usually don't comment on these types of threads but I am getting a strong "You're the asshole" vibe. Your anger is palpable even through the computer screen. You are not thinking rationally or clearly right now. It is always the wrong response to want to make someone else suffer, and taking that attitude reflects poorly on the accuracy of your side of the story.

It seems like you made assumptions and built up expectations that the outfitter never explicitly guaranteed but that you felt were implied. You even tried to position yourself as the better person with your "To me, a person's word still matters and I take people at their word." Did the outfitter ever explicitly say you could expect to see 40 deer per day and multiple bucks up to 170 inches? If not, then you created that expectation yourself.

A buddy of mine went on an outfitted hunt in Canada 2 years ago. The outfitter sent numerous photos of big bucks they were seeing and photos of past success. The week my friend hunted was warm and he never saw a decent buck. Of the 3 hunters in camp only one buck was killed and it was small for the area. They could have a bad attitude about it but instead they recognized that is a part of hunting. They booked again for the same week and went this past year, all 3 killed excellent bucks. Contrast that with your experience.

You should have communicated your expectations to the outfitter and been in contact for the last 2 years leading up to the hunt to get the latest information on how the conditions and deer herd were performing. You can always back out if the conditions change too much for your liking.

You are right I am very upset and not in my rational mind at this time, which is why I am not calling dude for a few days. I have never felt burned like this. A lot of things I could and should have done differently. I communicated expectations and was in touch with the outfitter over the past two years. No issues were relayed to me.

 

[COelk89]

How often did you talk to then before you showed up to hunt?

Communication about every 6 months, last comms in November

 

[COelk89]

As much as I love to hunt, being an outfitter sounds like it would suck. I am sure there are bad ones out there, which might be the case here. No matter how good an outfitter is they are bound to book a Karen eventually.

I would not want to be in the business either. But I am not sure how feeling deceived on a hunt and at some point wanting to share what I view as a poor experience makes me a Karen?

 

[307]

@307 That's BS.......you can express any opinion you want, as it is just that, my opinion. I do agree that the OP is out of luck and 'share the pain' is a crappy way to go thru life. Must be a VERY miserable person.

Yeah thats BS. I'm not defaming anyone. You can provide a review on an outfitter, and I have not named any names or properties to this point.

You two do realize an actual attorney offered the same warning earlier in the thread? Right? An actual expert who would know what he's talking about.

But, by all means, FAFO...

Good luck.

 

[rbutcher1234]

OP hunting is variable. Unless it’s a high fence canned shoot (I refuse to call that hunting), they can’t control macro deer trends, weather across the state, or other natural things. If they provided you the food, lodging, and support to put you in places they thought deer were going to be, that’s them. Whether the deer showed up or not is not the outfitter’s fault.

As an allegedly experienced public land hunter, you should know that hunting is variable. It sounds like maybe you assumed that paying money reduced that variability. It does not.

 

[COelk89]

Folks appreciate the comments and perspectives, and just an opportunity to vent. I am obviously very upset by the experience and knew before posting I have little to no monetary recourse. It does help to read the comments and suggestions. Ultimately I'll be better and learn from this experience in some way. Like I said, never been in this position before and it is just a terrible feeling to feel taken advantage of, even if that is just my side of events. I think anyone can empathize with that.

 

[browning2480]

True story here. I booked a striper fishing trip one time and never caught a fish. Can you believe that? The guy had giant pics of stripers all over his Facebook. Stinking scammers

 

[307]

As much as I love to hunt, being an outfitter sounds like it would suck. I am sure there are bad ones out there, which might be the case here. No matter how good an outfitter is they are bound to book a Karen eventually.

Agree. You've got to post the trophy pictures for marketing, or nobody will book, but then it's easy for that to become an expectation, which you're very unlikely to be able to meet...

No thanks.

 

[307]

True story here. I booked a striper fishing trip one time and never caught a fish. Can you believe that? The guy had giant pics of stripers all over his Facebook. Stinking scammers

Should have booked the stripper fishing trip instead. Much better odds.

 

[roadrunner]

That doesn't mean it's not legitimate. His first statement is that the hunt was a fraud compared to the sales pitch and what he paid for. If that's the case, we'd all feel like we got taken for a ride.

OP, probably not a whole lot you can do other than share the story of your experience so other people looking for info on the outfitter might find it.

Agree, however -

Reason I say that is going forward, IF the outfitter experiences financial loss due to bad reputation that "wasn't" there before, well, lawyers...you know how they can be if a payday is possible...

 

[longspeak74]

What are your Dad's feelings about the trip?

 

[COelk89]

Agree, however -

Reason I say that is going forward, IF the outfitter experiences financial loss due to bad reputation that "wasn't" there before, well, lawyers...you know how they can be if a payday is possible...

Understood, like I said I just wanted to vent a little bit and honestly getting some empathy, comedy at my expense, and some experience from others helps soften the blow. Like I said I have never been in this situation before and so perspective helps. Sometimes seeing flaws in my own thinking is difficult even if I look in the mirror every day. I can honestly say I feel better than before I posted because of the comments shared here so thank you all.

I have some soul searching to do on what is next because I have never looked forward to a hunt as much as this one before. I don't believe that I invented the expectations, but obviously more could have been done on my end to ensure I was not setting myself up for dissapointment.

 

[steelheadmike]

I spent a few years guiding for a $$$$ lodge in AK. I learned really quickly to NEVER express my expectations for the day to clients, whether the day looked good or bad.

I had more than a few people that were pretty pissed that they spent a good chunk of change to fish in AK only to find the river was blown or bathtub warm due to lack of rain. We always worked hard to make the best of it but somethings were out of our control, despite what the clients often thought.

 

[West.mass.hunter]

I think it would help to get the entire story from initial conversation with the outfitter, booking, the lead up to the hunt, the hunt and what happened after. I haven't seen any real details in this thread so it's hard to make heads or tails.

If it was truly the outfitters fault (whatever that might be) then you could possibly get a future discounted hunt or even a free one out of this. If whatever your issues were ended up being your fault, whether you dreamed to big, got to cocky or just expected the impossible then that would be on you.
Hunting is hunting whether it's a paid hunt, high fence, low fence or a public diy it's all still hunting, nothing is guaranteed.
Again, a full story might clear this up and sway the masses one way or the other but just posting random bits and pieces isn't the right way to do it imo

 

[COelk89]

What are your Dad's feelings about the trip?

He's not like me but then he did not contrive the whole deal and so I felt a lot of pressure for this to be a great experience. The hunt was not what he expected but he is not as upset as me. I definitely have more of my moms personality in that regard.

We enjoyed spending time together which is all that really matters. We didn't need to do all that to go hunting and spend time together, I just had hopes for a really special trip. In hindsight I'd rather have just gone and spent time at our lease December than take this trip, but I was not able to do that since we had this hunt planned.

 

[COelk89]

I think it would help to get the entire story from initial conversation with the outfitter, booking, the lead up to the hunt, the hunt and what happened after. I haven't seen any real details in this thread so it's hard to make heads or tails.

If it was truly the outfitters fault (whatever that might be) then you could possibly get a future discounted hunt or even a free one out of this. If whatever your issues were ended up being your fault, whether you dreamed to big, got to cocky or just expected the impossible then that would be on you.
Hunting is hunting whether it's a paid hunt, high fence, low fence or a public diy it's all still hunting, nothing is guaranteed.
Again, a full story might clear this up and sway the masses one way or the other but just posting random bits and pieces isn't the right way to do it imo

I understand, I want to speak to him after I cool down a few days before I post anything. I don't want or expect anything in return. The deal is done. This is a man with a business and a family and employees, I am in small business. I understand the realities and I dont want to hurt real people with emotional over reactions. Which is why I posted something a bit vague and a little bit more emotional as the hunt just ended last night.

 

[IdahoBeav]

No my dad shot a small 140s class maybe 5 yo buck. I didn't pull a trigger. Could have shot a small 3x3 that was older over a bale of alfalfa mid way thru but that is not my type of hunting...the hunt progressively got smaller to where we were just hunting the hay stack bc that is the only place we could find a lot of does to watch.

This is a very successful mule deer hunting trip. My dad is also pushing 70, and I couldn't put a price on getting him on a deer like that. Most 70 year old guys, especially without mule deer experience, need private access or a decent LE tag to get a deer of that class.

 

[rclouse79]

I would not want to be in the business either. But I am not sure how feeling deceived on a hunt and at some point wanting to share what I view as a poor experience makes me a Karen?

I did not mean to imply you were a Karen, unless of course you did not try to rectify the situation with the involved parties before airing dirty laundry. I am not up to speed on the situation and am just here for the entertainment value. Good luck sorting things out.

 

[COelk89]

This is a very successful mule deer hunting trip. My dad is also pushing 70, and I couldn't put a price on getting him on a deer like that. Most 70 year old guys, especially without mule deer experience, need private access or a decent LE tag to get a deer of that class.

We paid a lot of money for private access...