Recoil?

[Ryan Avery]

The other thread got me thinking. How many of you have compared a hunting weight rifle(sup 11 pounds) in .223, .243, or 6CM to a 6.5 Prc or bigger in shooing position you might take in the field while hunting from 100 to 400 yards? How many have done this and added in a follow-up shot or two? Be honest if you haven't but if you have, what was your conclusion?

 

[HandgunHTR]

I have done a .243 (100 grain Grand Slams) to a 7-08AI (150 grain Nosler ABLR) to a 7RM (160 grain Partitions) test shooting prone off of a backpack. 5-shot groups. The .243 (Ruger American) and 7RM (Tikka D18) both are factory. The 7-08AI is a Tikka custom with a 20" Bartlein Rem Varmint contour. For the sake of the test, I did not shoot any of them suppressed, but I did have the Witt Machine SME brake on the 7RM.
There was a noticeable difference in recoil between the three. I was good with the first two, but with the 7RM shots 4 and 5, I had to really concentrate to not anticpate the recoil. The SME doesn't do a lot for recoil but is great at throwing the blast away from the shooter.

 

[5MilesBack]

All the elk and deer that I've shot with a rifle (a few dozen) were all with a 7mag or a 30-06. I never really feel the recoil when I'm shooting elk and deer, but most every shot I've taken was free hand, even with follow up shots. The most shots I've taken in a row was four at a bull that just wouldn't go down. But on a bench, those rifles beat up my shoulder pretty good. They just don't sit the same as they do free hand. At the range on a bench my smaller caliber rifles don't hurt my shoulder much at all, recoil is not an issue. So I would imagine in the field they'd be fine as well.

 

[Wrench]

I've fired two 300rum rounds in rapid succession once at my first bull running by at 30 yards. Both hit. Beyond that, I shoot un braked rifles almost exclusively and basically either shoot with 100% confidence, or with low enough scope power to get back on target asap.

I caught a bull cresting a ridge in wa this year and shot off-hand at 375. I guessed 450 on shot one and went over him. He stopped and looked over his shoulder and I landed shot two in the zone taking him down in his tracks. That was a 300wsm/200gr and a 8.5 ish pound gun.

In my experience, I tend to shy away from shots that I need to leverage a follow-up to seal the deal.....but my opinion would change if I could ever draw a damned bull tag.

 

[ryjack70ss]

I must be the odd one. I have killed animals with all shapes and sizes of guns. But, if I do the shooting drill Form posted, I consistently hit 4-5 more in the circles with my suppressed 6.5 tikka than my 7mm rem mag cooper backcountry. Both lightweight. Both excellent shooters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bmart2622]

Regardless of what any of the tough guys or anti-muzzle device guys claim, everyone shoots better with reduced recoil whether it be by using a muzzle device or a smaller cartridge. Not to ssay that you cant shoot good otherwise but it will be better with less recoil.

 

[Newtosavage]

In 47 years of hunting with guns, I have yet to notice the recoil of any firearm when shooting at live game. So I guess I can't be of much help on this specific question.

I do notice recoil at the bench when I'm trying not to screw up a decent group though.

 

[OXN939]

I do notice recoil at the bench when I'm trying not to screw up a decent group though.

And this is the problem- that recoil you notice at the bench with big magnums very much informs a subconscious anticipatory response almost everybody has to shooting them while hunting, whether you remember the actual recoil of the round you sent towards an animal or not.

If you took 100 FPS recordings of everyone shooting magnums at public ranges and looked at the last frame before the shot breaks, a large percentage would show peoples' eyes closed in them.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I have a pair of tikka that have similar setups and weights - a 6.5 creed and a 300 WM. On the range, the creed is a dream to shoot and the win mag will punish you enough to induce flinch after a few rounds. When it comes to shooting animals in the field, I don’t notice the 300‘s recoil at all. Adrenaline and excitement take over And I am concentrating too hard on the animal and the shot mechanics to notice the recoil.

 

[Sako300]

I try to go out 3 times a week at different times during the day and set A 12x12’’ steel ring out from 400-1000 yards.
I get 1 cold bore shot from two of my rifles and that’s all I will fire. 300 win mag and 6.5 creedmoor.
My goal is Obviously to make a sub 1/2 moa shot from the center of the steel ring.
The key is practicing doping the wind and setting the target at different locations and ranges.
Practicing making that FIRST shot with the different winds, different angles and different topography locations helps me fine tune my shooting skills. I believe the first shot is the most important when hunting so making the correct corrections with my kestrel and rangefinder alone help me as a shooter. I will also phone Skope with my spotter on to evaluate the 1 shot from my 300 win mag and my 6.5 creedmoor on video mode.
I typically lay prone on the uneven ground and adjust my bipod with my light rear bag. So far I can’t see a difference firing that one cold bore shot from the 300 win mag or the 6.5 creedmoor and my accuracy standards. 1/2 moa from the center of the steel plate.
It’s the nut behind the trigger that makes all the difference in the world when Mother Nature throws you a curve ball on your 1st shot. Guys get to tied up on group sizes with 5 shot strings on targets on one given outing.
Go out on different days with different weather and Target conditions and make that first cold bore shot from a position that mimics a hunting shot.

 

[Newtosavage]

And this is the problem- that recoil you notice at the bench with big magnums very much informs a subconscious anticipatory response almost everybody has to shooting them while hunting, whether you remember the actual recoil of the round you sent towards an animal or not.

If you took 100 FPS recordings of everyone shooting magnums at public ranges and looked at the last frame before the shot breaks, a large percentage would show peoples' eyes closed in them.

I understand that. Fortunately for me I don't hunt at the range.

 

[willfrye027]

25 creedmoor vs 30-06: I can see the impact and feel significantly more confident that I will hit where I’m aiming.

On game much easier follow ups.

 

[Rich M]

In my experience, muzzleblast is more prone to cause flinching as compared to recoil.

Dad started me at 8 years old shooting 3006 for deer. I developed a solid flinch, more of a push the gun & turn my head. It was more the muzzleblast than the recoil but that didn't help either.

Fast forward 40+ years and the old man can still talk me into using that Model 70 3006. Bought a 243 and love it. Then old Dad took over the 243 and I missed 3 bucks with 3006 in 2 days. Funny thing is that I can hit a quarter with 3006 at 250 yards without any trouble cause we have it very dialed in - change the focus from trigger pull to animal and I revert back to muscle memory flinch. I don't get buck fever and am rock solid til the anticipated muzzleblast and have already pushed the gun away by then. It has cost me a lot of deer, some nice bucks.

So as a reward for missing 3 bucks in 2 days i checked zero (dead nutz) went ahead and bought a 350 Legend. Shot the next 2 deer i saw dead. Dad shot a buck with the 243 and NP load.

• My fav gun is a 357 mag rifle - 5# gun, 5# recoil, mostly quiet. It has killed 14 deer so far. Accurate to 200 yards, furthest deer is about 75 yards. No misses.
• 2nd fav is the 350 Legend - 7.5-8# gun and almost the same recoil as 243. Some muzzleblast cause 16 inch barrel. Shot 2 deer with it so far. No misses.
• 3rd is 243 - 8# gun. More muzzleblast than 350 Legend but not bad - 20 inch barrel. Shot 1 deer with it but others have shot 4 or 5 with it. No misses.
• Last is 3006 - takes a lot of focus to shoot. Loud muzzleblast with some recoil (will fold a towel and put on my shoulder if shooting more than 10-15 rounds). Have shot about 80 deer with it. Have missed as many likely. A buddy of mine has also flinched & missed with this gun. It's a beast.

I shoot 12 ga all the time - Dad likes to tinker with shotshells and we pattern a lot of high velocity and pressure shot loads - Not an issue. Trap/sporting clays - Not an issue. We duck hunt - Not an issue. The 12 ga is my friend and the noise & sometimes extremely heavy recoil (turkey load or slug level++) doesn't bother me.

That's why i think more folks flinch from muzzleblast than the actual recoil of the gun.

Another thing is what people say. I've shot a browning 300 mag and it didn't recoil as much as my Model 70 3006. Was a joy to shoot. (Anything I can shoot well without needing to strain my brain focusing on the shot is a joy to shoot...)

 

[SamsonMan22]

From 223 to 300wm and many in between some braked most not I have found I am both sensitive to recoil and blast. I can print the same size groups with the 300 with no brake that I can the 223 but I have to work through the punishment and take a lot more time on the 300. I don’t like recoil but I can work through it, I really hate blast from rifles with brakes and that is just as bad or worse than recoil to me even with good ear protection.

Follow up shots from field positions really start to suffer for me after about 6.5cm recoil. I can do ok with a light 308 but anything with more recoil it takes me a lot longer between shots. I came to the conclusion my success using a 6.5cm is much better than a 300wm and inspires more confidence on first and multiple round hits from various field positions. For me considering the size of animals and distances I shoot anything larger than the 6.5cm just doesn’t make sense and actually lowers my odds. With that rifle I setup shoot and don’t have to think about anything, with larger calibers recoil or muzzle blast is always in the back of my mind. Yes shooting at game I never feel the recoil but after the shot getting back on target is most often not there unlike the smaller calibers.

 

[Jimbee]

I shot at a bull elk 3 times with a supressed 300wsm at a little under 200 yards. I had no clue if I hit it until I walked over and found it dead. I hit it the first shot and it only moved enough to cover its vitals with a tree, second 2 shots were at the neck, one hit and one miss. I was comfortable and had a decent rest. I reload and shoot quite a bit. I'm ready to abandon the 300wsm after "building" a 6mmgt. I would have used my 6mm but the old guys I had the privilege of hunting with would have thrown a fit.

 

[Newtosavage]

In my experience, muzzleblast is more prone to cause flinching as compared to recoil.

Dad started me at 8 years old shooting 3006 for deer. I developed a solid flinch, more of a push the gun & turn my head. It was more the muzzleblast than the recoil but that didn't help either.

Ahhh don't we all miss silent generation parenting.

 

[bmart2622]

You might think you dont feel recoil when shooting at game but it definitely effects your ability stay on target, spot your hits, and make follow up shots

 

[KHNC]

A guy in my town made a brake, called the DELTA BRAKE. It was ugly, but effective. I have a Youtube video of my daughter at 9 years old , shooting a 300RUM from a bipod with near no recoil at all. Im sure he still has few to sell. It was made from Titanium. That thing is amazing. I still have one on several of my rifles. I may still have an aluminum version of it as well.

THis is not the video of my daughter, but this is the brake on a 300 Mag.

I found the one with my daughter and my buddys daughter in it.

 

[Lawnboi]

Iv got 3 hunting guns I shoot regularly from non bench/prone positions.

11lb 3006, shooting 185s at 2770
9lb 6.5 cm
9lb 223
All suppressed.

In a prone, or bench built position I can easily spot my shots with all three.

From field positions, tripod, off a gamechanger or shooting sticks I almost never spot them with the 3006, some of the time with the 6.5 if I’m on my game and almost always with the 223.

Follow ups are obviously faster with the 223. The last few animals I shot, I had a round in the chamber as I watched them do a death run through the scope. I see this as a big deal as well, growing up not shooting much and shooting larger rounds there was often seconds after the shot where my senses were in a blender from the recoil and blast.

All the above rifles currently wear manners eh1. Iv gotten to shoot with a few other stocks and can say that depending on design, I might not even spot positional shots with the creedmoor.

Recoil enhances problems caused by the shooter and their position from what Iv found. I also think the Kraft drill can easily show this.

This day and age I believe it’s ignorant to think that a few shots on a bench or prone is going to do similar as an expediently built position in the field. However that seems to be the norm with hunters.

Side note I’m still waiting to see more than one persons lightweight magnum Kraft drills!

Ease of shooting is likely why the next barrel on the 6.5 will be a 6 or 22cm.

 

[Rich M]

Ahhh don't we all miss silent generation parenting.

I had to look up silent generation. Pretty much.