Re-chamber or not?

[Shraggs]

With some of the recent threads on lower caliber, lower recoil and appropriate bullets I have definitely decided to look at some options. the goal is hunting up to elk to 600 yards hard stop with the lowest recoil possible. 6.5 creed seems obvious - but im also wondering about the 6 mm creed and the higher speed with 115 class options. Guns seem hard to come buy, so this thread is about considering a couple of guns i can part with or re-chamber - as i haven't made up my mind on caliber yet. already sold my 7mm RM.

Hoping some of you who shoot long with 6mm-7mm short actions, heavy for caliber with gun smith knowledge can chime in:

1. Kimber montana, 308 W. its fine, killed well and likes 165 accubonds to modest speed. its very jumpy when touched off. its a 1 in 12 twist tho, and the stock fit is tolerable. kimber rechambers to 6.5 but there are at least a year out. i know reputable smith in my area and that rifle can easily convert to either factory 6 or 6.5 creedmore and handle the long bullets.

2. Ruger 77 all weather, 350 RM. love my mid bores, but i have a 358 w that is loaded pretty hot im not sure tolerating the higher recoil on this is worth it for the distance gained. again, with the factory creedmors it will work according to my smith.

but wonder..., (gun smith doesn't not know oal with out seeing or measuring loaded cartridge which i don't have)

i have a lot of brass for 6 mm Remington. so i could rechamber to a 6mm Remington or a 6.5 swede - both having a touch more juice than the creeds. but with the slightly longer case, and slightly longer overall with the those longer bullets - is there enough room in the kimber 84m or the rougher 77 all weather? im not sure how to measure or have any equipment?

along same lines, always been a fan of 708, although never owned one and this too is a candidate, but trying to use longer bullets not sure what overall length goes to and if it would fit either?

last, the 350 rm would be easy to convert to a 6.5 rm. again im not sure if there is enough length for the longer bullets id like to shoot? also, brass..... i have 50 new nosler unfired 350 brass, and 60 Remington once fired 350 rm Remington brass but i don't know if that can be resized, or if its even worth the effort?



appreciated in advance!

 

[Montana Slim]

6mm remington will not be a good fit in the 84m with heavy for caliber bullets... very likely the same w/7mm-08 without losing a lot of cash capacity

 

[wind gypsy]

For what a new barrel costs I'd just buy a 7/08 tikka and sell one of your other rifles.

A 6.5 creedmoor will kill elk at 600 yards but I'd sure rather have a 7/08 for that task.

 

[Montana Slim]

For what a new barrel costs I'd just buy a 7/08 tikka and sell one of your other rifles.

A 6.5 creedmoor will kill elk at 600 yards but I'd sure rather have a 7/08 for that task.

Was going to suggest the same thing...

 

[NateK]

I have a custom 6.5 creed but I only chose that caliber because I wanted to build on a rifle I currently owned and did not want to have to resize my bolt face for a magnum cartridge. Based on the math the 6.5 creed is hard to beat as far as energy etc. vs recoil out past 400 yards but I also have hunted quite a bit with 7mm-08's and like that cartridge. Both have killed a lot of critters for me but I personally wouldn't use either much past 400 on elk (very limited elk experience here). Might be worth getting a slightly heavier rifle or spending the money on a break (which I hate to hunt with) or suppressor to make a heavier hitting cartridge more tolerable?

Either way I am really happy I had my gun worked on by a quality smith vs buying a new rifle for the same money that would "probably" have been very accurate.

 

[Shraggs]

thanks guys very helpful so far - was kinda thinking the 6 mm rem /6.5 swede would be too long for these short actions. didn't want to get into the caliber, but here I go!

amazing to me we have seen photos of a 223 killing elk into mid 400 yards! yet 6.5, it seems i read 50/50 a hard stop on elk sized game 500 yards or so/ yet members here on rokslide have kills to 700 +. Bullet dependent certainly, but i wondered if 24-26" barrels can get speed up just enough to see this disparity i read.

A 7-08 to me may have same challenge, just not enough powder to push the heavier (over 140 class .284 bullets) to speeds to kill past 5-600. idk

6.5 RM has juice but brass and components...

which is why i threw 6mm creed into the mix. smaller bore and lighter, but even with 115 class launch speed can be so much higher than 6.5/7mm in short actions that proper tissue damage could be real good at my desired range, ie 115 dtacs or vlds.


if i rechamber one of these, was thinking at least 24" maybe 26" for that reason.

 

[Shraggs]

oh, i think for me a brake is a no go.

surpressed is more my future.

 

[Vaultman]

Not sure if one of the ones you mention will rechamber to it, but a 6.8 Western seems like it may fit the bill. Short action, knock down power at longer range.

 

[Shraggs]

Never considered 6.8 western nor realized its short action. I’ll look into

 

[slvrslngr]

If you’re shooting something at 600yds, you’ve got time to put in ear protection.

I’d go with something that carries more punch at that range than a Creed and use a break. 280AI or 26/27/28/30 Nosler would be where I’d look. Might consider the classic 300WM or 300 WSM as well.

I wouldn’t touch the Ruger due to its cool factor and you could sell the Montana for a decent price and have seed money for a custom build. And if you end up with a can, spin off the break and spin on the can (assuming threads are the same, something you can specify on a custom).

 

[Formidilosus]

If you’re shooting something at 600yds, you’ve got time to put in ear protection

Suppressors do more than protect hearing.

I’d go with something that carries more punch at that range than a Creed and use a break. 280AI or 26/27/28/30 Nosler would be where I’d look. Might consider the classic 300WM or 300 WSM as well.

What negative experiences have you had with .264 cartridges at sub 600 yard ranges on elk?

 

[Formidilosus]

Hoping some of you who shoot long with 6mm-7mm short actions, heavy for caliber with gun smith knowledge can chime in:

1. Kimber montana, 308 W. its fine, killed well and likes 165 accubonds to modest speed. its very jumpy when touched off. its a 1 in 12 twist tho, and the stock fit is tolerable. kimber rechambers to 6.5 but there are at least a year out. i know reputable smith in my area and that rifle can easily convert to either factory 6 or 6.5 creedmore and handle the long bullets.

2. Ruger 77 all weather, 350 RM. love my mid bores, but i have a 358 w that is loaded pretty hot im not sure tolerating the higher recoil on this is worth it for the distance gained. again, with the factory creedmors it will work according to my smith.

You know what I’m going to say, but...

Neither of those rifle options, nor the 6mm Rem, 6.5x55, or 6.5 RM are where you want to be headed. Component availability, and commonness in normal times matters. I personally can’t see getting cute with cartridges/rifles for day in and day out killing rifles.

Tikka T3 in whatever you flavor of cartridge.

6mm- 243, 6mm CM, 6mm XC.

6.5- 6.5 CM, max 6.5 PRC.

7mm recoils too much for what it offers in general, though a 7mm-08 with 180gr ELD-M’s pushed hard certainly has some attributes. However sub 600, the lighter recoiling rounds make more sense.

The 6mm’s with 115’s, and 6.5’s with 130+ grain bullets, as well as the 7mm are easy 600 yard guns. Having done it repeatedly, I’d like to see the elk that can’t be stoned on demand with one.

 

[Shraggs]

Form - Thanks for chiming in! Yep I figured.

been looking hard, some new 6.5 guns with shorter barrel options but not in the vain as I believe you advocate. So exploring my assets options.

I’m satisfied the Swede based and 6.5 Remington are a no go...

if I can’t find new it’s a flavor of creed to convert. Prolly the kimber.

what does “east 600” mean?

Would love to drive a 7-08 hard in that case, still similar powder to 6.5 cm. What powder, barrel length, twist, throat etc can do that in your experience? This is appealing.

still, so is a 6mm creed with 115 way north of 3000 FPS.

 

[Vaultman]

Never considered 6.8 western nor realized its short action. I’ll look into

Not a popular caliber, but since ammo is scarce, I've seen more 6.8 western than anything else in my area.

 

[Formidilosus]

what does “east 600” mean?

Would love to drive a 7-08 hard in that case, still similar powder to 6.5 cm. What powder, barrel length, twist, throat etc can do that in your experience? This is appealing.

still, so is a 6mm creed with 115 way north of 3000 FPS.

Should have been “easy 600”.

7-08- RL17, 180gr ELD-M seated as long as mag allows, 20-22” barrel. 2,600’ish FPS MV. However, the recoil will be significantly more than a 6.5 CM with a 147gr, and the Creedmoor will crush at 600.

Around 13-15 ft-lbs of recoil is the cutoff for most for spotting your own impacts. The 6mm’s with a 115gr at 3k will be around 13 ft-lbs, the 6.5CM with a 147 at 2,700 is right at 16 ft-lbs, the 6.5 PRC with 147gr at 3,000, and the 7mm-08 with 180 at 2,600fps are right at 21-22 fat-lbs. All in a 7lb rifle. Suppress them and take 25’ish percent off of that.

 

[Shraggs]

Sheeze I should have figured easy/east out!
Thanks as always.

6 creed is looking very appealing to me. You prefer 22” barrel length?

tikka is not chambering this that I could find, just the hells canyon.

a suppressor reduces felt recoil I assume from where the additional weight is?

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

With some of the recent threads on lower caliber, lower recoil and appropriate bullets I have definitely decided to look at some options. the goal is hunting up to elk to 600 yards hard stop with the lowest recoil possible. 6.5 creed seems obvious - but im also wondering about the 6 mm creed and the higher speed with 115 class options. Guns seem hard to come buy, so this thread is about considering a couple of guns i can part with or re-chamber - as i haven't made up my mind on caliber yet. already sold my 7mm RM.

Hoping some of you who shoot long with 6mm-7mm short actions, heavy for caliber with gun smith knowledge can chime in:

1. Kimber montana, 308 W. its fine, killed well and likes 165 accubonds to modest speed. its very jumpy when touched off. its a 1 in 12 twist tho, and the stock fit is tolerable. kimber rechambers to 6.5 but there are at least a year out. i know reputable smith in my area and that rifle can easily convert to either factory 6 or 6.5 creedmore and handle the long bullets.

2. Ruger 77 all weather, 350 RM. love my mid bores, but i have a 358 w that is loaded pretty hot im not sure tolerating the higher recoil on this is worth it for the distance gained. again, with the factory creedmors it will work according to my smith.

but wonder..., (gun smith doesn't not know oal with out seeing or measuring loaded cartridge which i don't have)

i have a lot of brass for 6 mm Remington. so i could rechamber to a 6mm Remington or a 6.5 swede - both having a touch more juice than the creeds. but with the slightly longer case, and slightly longer overall with the those longer bullets - is there enough room in the kimber 84m or the rougher 77 all weather? im not sure how to measure or have any equipment?

along same lines, always been a fan of 708, although never owned one and this too is a candidate, but trying to use longer bullets not sure what overall length goes to and if it would fit either?

last, the 350 rm would be easy to convert to a 6.5 rm. again im not sure if there is enough length for the longer bullets id like to shoot? also, brass..... i have 50 new nosler unfired 350 brass, and 60 Remington once fired 350 rm Remington brass but i don't know if that can be resized, or if its even worth the effort?



appreciated in advance!

Man there's some bad info going on around here..
Having killed 6 bulls between my wife and I with a 6.5 saum I promise you its a matter of time before things go wrong at LR

A few seasons back I hit a bull beyond 600 yards center lungs with a 147, he nearly got away I was lucky to put him down a few hours later.
There was very little damage to the lungs and the bullet opened up well.
Using a 6mm at 600 is straight up asking for problems if you don't make a perfect hit, all it takes is a missed windcall and you're tracking a wounded bull.

My advice is keep shots inside 500 with a 6.5 creed, and 400 with a 6mm.
For what you're wanting I'd go with a fast twist 270 sending 170 bergers, or better yet a 284 win, 280ai, or 7saum with 168s

 

[Dioni A]

I'd agree with the above post. Elk are damn tough. I put more rounds than I care to admit in a big bull at 540 yards and watched him soak up the bullets. I've watched those same 165 grain accubonds pancake elk inside of 300 yards a bunch of times. That elk died but I moved up to heavier bullets after that. They're just tough.

 

[Spoonbill]

With some of the recent threads on lower caliber, lower recoil and appropriate bullets I have definitely decided to look at some options. the goal is hunting up to elk to 600 yards hard stop with the lowest recoil possible. 6.5 creed seems obvious - but im also wondering about the 6 mm creed and the higher speed with 115 class options. Guns seem hard to come buy, so this thread is about considering a couple of guns i can part with or re-chamber - as i haven't made up my mind on caliber yet. already sold my 7mm RM.

Hoping some of you who shoot long with 6mm-7mm short actions, heavy for caliber with gun smith knowledge can chime in:

1. Kimber montana, 308 W. its fine, killed well and likes 165 accubonds to modest speed. its very jumpy when touched off. its a 1 in 12 twist tho, and the stock fit is tolerable. kimber rechambers to 6.5 but there are at least a year out. i know reputable smith in my area and that rifle can easily convert to either factory 6 or 6.5 creedmore and handle the long bullets.

2. Ruger 77 all weather, 350 RM. love my mid bores, but i have a 358 w that is loaded pretty hot im not sure tolerating the higher recoil on this is worth it for the distance gained. again, with the factory creedmors it will work according to my smith.

but wonder..., (gun smith doesn't not know oal with out seeing or measuring loaded cartridge which i don't have)

i have a lot of brass for 6 mm Remington. so i could rechamber to a 6mm Remington or a 6.5 swede - both having a touch more juice than the creeds. but with the slightly longer case, and slightly longer overall with the those longer bullets - is there enough room in the kimber 84m or the rougher 77 all weather? im not sure how to measure or have any equipment?

along same lines, always been a fan of 708, although never owned one and this too is a candidate, but trying to use longer bullets not sure what overall length goes to and if it would fit either?

last, the 350 rm would be easy to convert to a 6.5 rm. again im not sure if there is enough length for the longer bullets id like to shoot? also, brass..... i have 50 new nosler unfired 350 brass, and 60 Remington once fired 350 rm Remington brass but i don't know if that can be resized, or if its even worth the effort?



appreciated in advance!

If your ruger 350 rm is from the factory, I would leave it as is, I don't think Ruger made a lot of those. 350rm uses a magnum bolt face so you would be able to rebarrel it to a 6.5PRC or a saum/wsm cartridge or sell it and roll the funds into a new gun.
Proof makes a stainless steel prefit 6mm creedmoor barrel for Tikka, if you wanted a 6mm creedmoor Tikka. You would just need to find a standard bolt face Tikka to use as a donor. Alternatively, you could just buy a 7/08 or 6.5 creedmoor Tikka and save on the rebarrel.

 

[Shraggs]

Thanks on proof barrel info. Looking now I see a proof chambered in 6 creed... which I don’t know, out of stock of course.

Yep Ruger made a short run of those in 1985 with the right twist.

fixated on a quest can impair thinking! Wont be messing with.