Rangefinder and Weather Meter for Long Range Hunting

[Rorschach]

Wanting to hunt out to ~800m and am looking in to a rangefinder and Kestrel that will get me that far. So, in other words, a rangefinder that won't crap out on ranging smaller non-reflective targets up to 800m, and a Kestrel that has wind, temperature, and altitude density.

Rangefinder
I've narrowed it down to the Sig Kilo 2200MR and the Leica 1600-R, having eliminated the Sig Kilo 2400, Bushnell CONX, and Leica 1600-B.

The CONX seemed to have mixed reviews, beside having a max deer rating of 500yds. The 'B' version of the Leica's wasn't enticing because the ballistics seemed to be much more limited than just using a phone app and inputting the variables.

The 2200MR is $100 less than the Leica, but the Leica in some reviews seems to have better performance all-around.

Weather Meter
The Kestrel 5000 is what I'm currently looking at. I don't really need redundant ballistics in the rangefinder, phone, and weather meter; fine just having this in the phone, along with perhaps a paper backup chart for emergencies.

One question is, could I get away with a less expensive Kestrel that only had humidity, temperature, and station pressure, or does this complicate things massively versus just having density altitude information available?

Also, is Bluetooth capability worth the extra ~$100?

For the application, does this seem like the right avenue of approach to the equipment part of the equation?

Thanks for the assistance.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Wanting to hunt out to ~800m and am looking in to a rangefinder and Kestrel that will get me that far. So, in other words, a rangefinder that won't crap out on ranging smaller non-reflective targets up to 800m, and a Kestrel that has wind, temperature, and altitude density.

Rangefinder
I've narrowed it down to the Sig Kilo 2200MR and the Leica 1600-R, having eliminated the Sig Kilo 2400, Bushnell CONX, and Leica 1600-B.

The CONX seemed to have mixed reviews, beside having a max deer rating of 500yds. The 'B' version of the Leica's wasn't enticing because the ballistics seemed to be much more limited than just using a phone app and inputting the variables.

The 2200MR is $100 less than the Leica, but the Leica in some reviews seems to have better performance all-around.

Weather Meter
The Kestrel 5000 is what I'm currently looking at. I don't really need redundant ballistics in the rangefinder, phone, and weather meter; fine just having this in the phone, along with perhaps a paper backup chart for emergencies.

One question is, could I get away with a less expensive Kestrel that only had humidity, temperature, and station pressure, or does this complicate things massively versus just having density altitude information available?

Also, is Bluetooth capability worth the extra ~$100?

For the application, does this seem like the right avenue of approach to the equipment part of the equation?

Thanks for the assistance.

You're headed in the right direction. The choice is RF is a toss-up. There is a large amount of variation in the performance of Sig Kilo 2000's, and I expect the 2200 is the same. If you get a good one, they're better than the Leica. If you get a bad one, the Leica performs better.

Can you get away with a lesser Kestrel? Yes, The 2500 is what I use.

Is Bluetooth worth the extra $100? Probably. Nice to have the data auto-populate into your ballistic app, though not at all necessary.

 

[Steakngravy]

Ive been using the leica hdb super glass and the range ginder is super fast the ballistic data will only go to 1k but its been spot on tested against kestrel. I wish it gave readouts past that but really that covers 99 % of my hunting situations. Also it gives your boldover in clicks instead of moa readout. Thats really my only gripe but over all i really like them

 

[Rorschach]

That's as straightforward as it gets. Thanks Jordan.

On the 2500, do you ever have to calibrate the humidity sensor? I've seen those calibration kits and wondered how necessary it was. Also, what is the bottom line on what data is needed in a ballistics program as far as temp, altitude, and humidity goes? One of the questions I've been trying to unravel the answer to, is what pieces of data are actually needed to compute a ballistic solution if density altitude isn't available.

Is there an easy test to assess quickly whether or not I "[got] a good one" if I end up going with the 2200?

You're headed in the right direction. The choice is RF is a toss-up. There is a large amount of variation in the performance of Sig Kilo 2000's, and I expect the 2200 is the same. If you get a good one, they're better than the Leica. If you get a bad one, the Leica performs better.

Can you get away with a lesser Kestrel? Yes, The 2500 is what I use.

Is Bluetooth worth the extra $100? Probably. Nice to have the data auto-populate into your ballistic app, though not at all necessary.

 

[Jordan Smith]

The 2500 doesn't have a humidity sensor, which indirectly answers your next question. Pressure and temperature are the two big factors, humidity affects air density to a much lesser degree. Enough less that you can get accurate data by using 50% humidity in your calculator the vast majority of the time. Density altitude really just accounts for those three variables in one number.

The Sig Kilo 2000 seems to struggle the most in bright, harsh light on dark targets. Range some evergreen trees at mid-day in bright sunlight beyond 1000 meters to see how yours performs. If you can range those trees easily out beyond 1000, you got a good one. Beyond 1500, you got a great one, and beyond 2000 means you got one of the few units that are exemplary.

 

[vlad]

would really love to get my hands on one of these, wonder if i can find one on amazon.

 

[Rorschach]

Thanks, again.

The only thing that seems like it would change on a fast enough basis to effect a firing solution are distance to target and wind direction/speed. Is this correct? As such, I believe that one would not be sacrificing much,if anything relative to the 5000, in using the Kestrel 2500. This may be the direction I end up going. Amazon has a used one for sale at about $109. Yeah?

As a quick experiment/sanity-check, I went into JBM's trajectory calculator and, leaving everything the same from one solution to the next except for humidity going from 100% to 0%, obtained a result saying that at from 0% to 100% in humidity causes an elevation shift at 1000yds of ~2" (running a 300 win mag load). Entering 50% humidity regardless of actual environmental conditions, a shot would only be 1" off, maximum, at 1000yds - definitely not worth worrying about, when a 10mph wind is throwing your shot by 7ft if not accounted for correctly. With wind speeds that high, a 1" shift on target at 1000yds equates to a wind call with only ~1% of error in it!! Such errors would be waaaaayyy down in the noise, so to speak, it seems.

I may end up purchasing the Sig Kilo 2200 through MidwayUSA or somewhere with a great return policy like them, just in case I end up with a lemon.

The 2500 doesn't have a humidity sensor, which indirectly answers your next question. Pressure and temperature are the two big factors, humidity affects air density to a much lesser degree. Enough less that you can get accurate data by using 50% humidity in your calculator the vast majority of the time. Density altitude really just accounts for those three variables in one number.

The Sig Kilo 2000 seems to struggle the most in bright, harsh light on dark targets. Range some evergreen trees at mid-day in bright sunlight beyond 1000 meters to see how yours performs. If you can range those trees easily out beyond 1000, you got a good one. Beyond 1500, you got a great one, and beyond 2000 means you got one of the few units that are exemplary.

 

[Rorschach]

Also - irrespective of whether or not the Leica is better than the Sig...

1) Is it reliable for ranging furry animals at up to 800m?

2) Are there any features that - IF the two were equal in terms of ranging capability - would tilt the decision towards one of them in favor of the other? An example might be something like, better display information, better scan mode, better glass (obviously that goes to the Leica, but it's just an example), etc., etc.

I think these are my main questions at this point, in terms of making a decision.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Thanks, again.

The only thing that seems like it would change on a fast enough basis to effect a firing solution are distance to target and wind direction/speed. Is this correct? As such, I believe that one would not be sacrificing much,if anything relative to the 5000, in using the Kestrel 2500. This may be the direction I end up going. Amazon has a used one for sale at about $109. Yeah?

As a quick experiment/sanity-check, I went into JBM's trajectory calculator and, leaving everything the same from one solution to the next except for humidity going from 100% to 0%, obtained a result saying that at from 0% to 100% in humidity causes an elevation shift at 1000yds of ~2" (running a 300 win mag load). Entering 50% humidity regardless of actual environmental conditions, a shot would only be 1" off, maximum, at 1000yds - definitely not worth worrying about, when a 10mph wind is throwing your shot by 7ft if not accounted for correctly. With wind speeds that high, a 1" shift on target at 1000yds equates to a wind call with only ~1% of error in it!! Such errors would be waaaaayyy down in the noise, so to speak, it seems.

I may end up purchasing the Sig Kilo 2200 through MidwayUSA or somewhere with a great return policy like them, just in case I end up with a lemon.

It's not so much the rate of change of inputs, as just having to enter the inputs at all. In a time-pressure scenario it would be nice to take the readings and know that the inputs are in the app already for you. But yeah, it's not a big deal and the 2500 works fine for me.

I got a lemon with the first SK2000 I received. Sent it to Sig and they sent me a replacement which works much better.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Also - irrespective of whether or not the Leica is better than the Sig...

1) Is it reliable for ranging furry animals at up to 800m?

2) Are there any features that - IF the two were equal in terms of ranging capability - would tilt the decision towards one of them in favor of the other? An example might be something like, better display information, better scan mode, better glass (obviously that goes to the Leica, but it's just an example), etc., etc.

I think these are my main questions at this point, in terms of making a decision.

Critters to 800 should be no problem, except maybe in the worst possible atmospheric/lighting conditions.

The features on the Sig are pretty awesome. OLED display adapts to ambient light well, rapid scan mode that takes 4 readings per second, and readings are accurate to 0.1 meter.

 

[Rorschach]

Honestly, I'm afraid if getting a lemon if I go with Sig. The inconsistency is a little scary. The Leicas seem more consistent. But I've run across reviews of that saying that people had trouble ranging animals at 700 too.

However, it sounds like you'd lean towards the Sig, am I right?

 

[Jordan Smith]

I'd probably go Sig, though the Leica 1600 is a great RF, too. Hard to go wrong with either.

 

[Rorschach]

Thanks. Any leads on where a 2200 can be gotten? Amazon seems to have one for $499 but then others for $600 plus, so I'm kind of afraid if the cheaper one, as in, is it old or something? I'm hoping that when you find a 2200 online, it's a 2200, and there aren't any shenanigans where they've made changes to the model without changing the number, updated it from year to year, etc.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Couldn't say, but I'd expect they got most of the bugs worked out with the 2000 model, so hopefully the 2200 is more consistent in its benchmark performance.

 

[doverpack12]

For a weather meter look into the weather low meter. I got mine for $80 or under. Also if you want to use your phone, GPS possibly watch for some of the inputs you might just be able to get some less expensive individual meters. The agriculture industry has tons of atmospheric meters that are pretty affordable. I elected for the weatherflow because it had wind with everything else and I still have my phone and GPS for some backup readings if I need them.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Bubblehide sent me this link when I was asking about LR hunting. I about crapped my pants. Sig Kilo 2400 Applied Ballistics System - US Only

 

[Bubblehide]

Bubblehide sent me this link when I was asking about LR hunting. I about crapped my pants. Sig Kilo 2400 Applied Ballistics System - US Only

Bruce, he eliminated that one right off the bat.

 

[wind gypsy]

I think you got some good input on equipment. My take is to make dope cards with verified data in your average hunting conditions using this equipment. Ranging and then scrambling with your weather meter and ballistic app can often mean a missed shot opportunity. Nice to have the gear if you have time, but I usually don't (which is why I picked up Geovid HD-B's this offseason).

 

[Justin Crossley]

I'm personally a big fan of the Sig rangefinders and have had good experiences with both my Kilo2000 and Kilo2400. I haven't used the Kilo2200 yet. I have had a couple buddies who have had some random issues with their Sigs but I haven't had any issues with mine personally. One friend had an issue with a short in the battery door and another friend had an issue with their Bluetooth. I have had issues with two different Leica 1600's that I owned and both had to be replaced. Take a look at these reviews if you haven't already.

SIG SAUER KILO2000 Rangefinder Review

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/optics/60163-sig-kilo-2400-abs-review.html?highlight=kilo+2400

 

[Rorschach]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I got a kestrel 2500 and a Sig Kilo 2200mr in the mail. We'll see how they do. Will try to report back here with results.

Maybe at some point I'll upgrade to a sportsman or elite if this ends up being a pain. However, I figure if I keep conditions in the app and update them as I hunt if things are substantially changing, then the firing solution will be a matter of ranging the target. No?