Random Safety Question Opinion

[Duuane]

Last weekend I, along with three friends shot TAC in Vermont. On Sunday, our second day of shooting, were at the last target of the Sitka course waiting for two groups to finish the station. The first group finished and walked down towards the lodge. The second group, a 20 something year old man and his girlfriend were preparing to shoot. Our group was behind and to their left about thirty yards. My friend, who has limited arm and shoulder mobility due to cancer surgery, lifted his bow to check the sight picture, to see whether or not he would be able to shoot that target based on his limited up and down angle capability. He did have an arrow nocked, but he didn't draw his bow, or have his release on the string, his draw arm was at his side. The young man, who as I said was about thirty yards to our right and at a 45 degree angle from where my friend was pointing his bow, saw my friend and became incensed. He said that my friend had a loaded weapon pointed in their direction. That was not the case, the angle he was pointing was nowhere near their direction, and at that point the worst thing that could have happened was that his arrow fell off the rest and landed at his own feet. We were able to deescalate the situation enough for them to finish the station and move on, but I don't understand his anger. I'm looking for opinions from another persons archery perspective. A thousand out of a thousand times that is not an unsafe action. I understand shooting safety, I was in law enforcement for twenty-nine years, and have hunted with guns for more than fifty years, they are a different story entirely. Thanks

 

[realunlucky]

Yeah that guy with an arrow nocked outside of the shooting line was clearly violating safe range conditions.

How big of a deal I made it would be situational but I also would have pointed out it's not OK.

If my gun was unloaded but I pointed it your direction would that make you uncomfortable? They don't know what the hell other people are planning but when it's an archery shoot and someone has an arrow pointing at a target with them in-between, who won't be concerned?

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[MattB]

This sounds like a classic case of “there are three sides to every story” with a bit of blame on both parties. Sounds like the young guy massively over-reacted, but what was the point of your friend having an arrow knocked? That shouldn’t have happened.

 

[maxx075]

You guys get mad when your kids point a Nerf gun at you too?

 

[sndmn11]

I think it's a positive that the person became "incensed". Safety violations are big deals. Being asskissy with, "you probably shouldn't do that", I'd imagine would have gotten something like, "it's ok, I was in LE for decades!", and swept under the rug.

 

[MattB]

You guys get mad when your kids point a Nerf gun at you too?

Which model nerf gun fires a potentially lethal projectile?

If I was at a public range and some random person behind me initiated the sequence required to shoot by nocking an arrow, I would most definitely pay close attention to make sure they weren’t going to draw. That seems like an innocent enough act, but only the shooter knew his intentions.

 

[gabenzeke]

I wouldn't normally consider that a loaded weapon. The only reason I kind of lean toward it being wrong to nock an arrow is the fact that you're around people you don't know. The guy that got mad has no idea if your group is one of those groups of people that might be dumb enough to draw the bow in that situation. Don't think I would have called it a loaded weapon or been incensed. I might have said do you mind waiting until we move on to do that. If I'm shooting with a buddy and he does that in my yard for example, I've got no issue.

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[Geewhiz]

A nocked arrow is a bit different than an "unloaded" firearm. If he was nocked and drawn that's a different story. Sometimes if an arrow is nocked and bow not drawn but pointed at you, it looks like its drawn and ready to shoot, so maybe that's what the other guy saw but I wouldn't be the least bit concerned to see a guy with an arrow nocked.

 

[maxx075]

A nocked bow/arrow has no kinetic energy. The worst that could happen would be that your arrow falls out and cuts your leg/foot. Same with a crossbow, as long is it's not cocked.

Now if you're talking nocked and drew back/cocked, yea, there might be an issue.

 

[Wolf13]

Nothing should happen, but you have no idea if someone is going to draw. It’s not like drawing and releasing take a long time. To me it’s similar to a gun that’s unloaded being pointed behind the firing line. If their backs were to you, the concern is would the person draw at some point. You have no idea what anybody is going to do but yourself, and based on how I’ve seen people act at a range nothing is outside the realm of possibilities. Wouldn't have yelled, but would have voiced my displeasure and concern.

 

[Yoder]

I don't think it was a big deal. I agree he shouldn't have nocked and arrow, but nobody could have gotten hurt in that situation unless he drew the bow back. I can also understand the guy getting angry. He might have thought he was going to draw. There are a lot of morons out there. At the public range, I've had guns pointed at me and have had people walk down range while I was actively shooting.

 

[Jethro]

Wasn’t there, so incensed does sound like an overreaction. Your friend was clearly in the wrong. Don’t nock up till it’s your turn to shoot

 

[Duuane]

Thanks for all the replies. the first thing I would like to clarify is that at no time was a bow pointed at, or in the direction of anyone. Imagine a firing line 30 yards in length, with a shooter at the right end of the line, and another person at the other end of the line. The target was at 90 degrees to the firing line at the right (shooters end) of the line, and fifty to sixty yards from the shooter. At the other end of the line, 30 yards away, is the other person. Because of the angle of the line, from where he is standing, the target is some seventy yards away. The reality is, that even though it was a single station, it easily could have been a long shooting line with multiple shooters shooting at that same target from different distances and angles. I made the post because I watched 3D competitions on cable and on YouTube and it wasn't uncommon to see multiple shooters on the line, arrows nocked, and while making adjustments to their bow sights, turning the bow 90 degrees and pointing the nocked arrow at the shooter to their right or left. No intent, no safety issue, and no harm to the other competitors, I equated our situation to that. Although there were several different opinions and perspectives, all of the replies were helpful and I'm certain my friend won't repeat that action. sndmn11, the only reason I mentioned my law enforcement past, wasn't to brag, or to sweep anything under the rug, it was to acknowledge that in law enforcement I was on a firing line in excess of 150 times, and safety is paramount. Safety and muzzle discipline is taken seriously, not sometimes, not most of the time, it is taken seriously every time, and any unsafe actor will be removed from the line. I understand and support safety precautions with firearms and archery equipment. If you have had a negative experience with, or view of law enforcement in the past, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope any future interaction will be positive. Again, thanks to all for the replies and perspectives. Cheers!!

 

[sndmn11]

. sndmn11, the only reason I mentioned my law enforcement past, wasn't to brag, or to sweep anything under the rug, it was to acknowledge that in law enforcement I was on a firing line in excess of 150 times, and safety is paramount. ... If you have had a negative experience with, or view of law enforcement in the past, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope any future interaction will be positive. Again, thanks to all for the replies and perspectives. Cheers!!

I worked in LE for a handful of years. It doesn't mean I get a pass on the firing line, or can drive beyond the speed limit, or get any other special treatment.

Your past career is irrelevant in any shooting scenario where you are not the RSO. Cheering on a friend who did what you describe is not --->

Safety and muzzle discipline is taken seriously, not sometimes, not most of the time, it is taken seriously every time, and any unsafe actor will be removed from the line. I understand and support safety precautions with firearms and archery equipment. /I]

Because it sounds like you didn't remove the unsafe actor from the line. Circle back to my prior comment about sweeping it under the rug because "I was in LE for 29 years", you're upholding the stereotype.

 

[308Baer]

The 20 something year old wanted to display his masculinity in front of his gal. A simple explanation to your friend over the concern of him drawing his bow behind the line would have sufficed.

 

[Duuane]

sndmn11.......posting the incident on an open forum asking for opinions, suggestions, and alternate points of view is the exact opposite of sweeping it under the rug, it's bigger than putting on a roadside billboard, it's asking for input from others, who although were not there, may have helpful comments and suggestions, and ideas, most did. My friend will not repeat his actions, while not physically unsafe, his actions made other participants uncomfortable, so he accepts the responsibility to do better in the future, again no rug, no sweeping. God Bless, and good luck with your archery endeavors.

 

[MattB]

To the OP: if you were on the firing line at the LE firing range and saw or heard a shooter behind you insert a mag into their gun and drop the slide to chamber a round, would you be concerned?

Not an exact analogy, but it might help you get a perspective on the young man from the archery shoot since you seem intent on ignoring how others might perceive your friend’s behavior.

 

[LongWayAround]

Someone behind me with an an arrow knocked and the bow raised is not ok. Typically, the next step is drawing and shooting.

Things go sideways and lots of people are stupid. No third party can discern your/his intentions.

Nobody cares if you were in law enforcement. Nor do they care if he had/has cancer. Lots of long term gun hunters do stupid/dangerous things.

The other guy probably over reacted.

 

[Marbles]

From your description in post 13, it sounds like a triangle was formed between the target, your group, and the other group. It sounds like your friend was at least 45 degrees off (but probably more) from pointing his bow at the other group.

Sounds like the other guy over reacted, to me. Now, if they had been effectively between your friend and the target, that would be very different. I would consider a bow with an arrow nocked to be the same as an unloaded firearm. Someone points an unloaded gun at me, and unless it was previously agreed to for training purposes, I will get pissed.

This is my understanding of the set up, and I would be fine with live fire from your group at the target (if situationally appropriate).

 

[NMJM]

Comparing it to firearms is apples and oranges, totally different scenarios. I have never been to TAC but do a few 3D shoots a year. From what you describe there is no safety issue and no big deal. Some people love drama and will create issues whenever they can.