R Value quantifiably impactful...w/out bag upgrade???

[ColoradoCarp]

I've been running a summer pad, non-insulated nemo astro, and was awfully cold on my last backcountry hunt that saw night time lows in low 20s and howling winds, felt colder than I thought it should have based on the temp alone. My bag is a Nemo Forte 20 degree (synthetic insulation, 20 is survival rating I believe). Question is...will I see a meaningful improvement in warmth simply by jumping to a high R value winter pad without any change to my sleeping bag? Would love any real world examples you have of pad upgrades with same bag and the felt results.

 

[mtwarden]

That r value is 1.5, maybe 40 degrees. Get something in the 5+ range to take advantage of your 20 degree bag.

I have a very light pad (Thermarest Uberlite) it has an r value of 2.7- freezing is the limit for that pad, proven numerous times

 

[Maverick1]

You will notice a difference if you go to a pad with a higher R value, for sure. The other thing you could consider - to avoid buying a different bag - is a sleeping bag liner. Maybe makes a 5-10 degree difference.

 

[ColoradoCarp]

You will notice a difference if you go to a pad with a higher R value, for sure. The other thing you could consider - to avoid buying a different bag - is a sleeping bag liner. Maybe makes a 5-10 degree difference.

I'll look at the liner idea. Thanks! I am trying to avoid having to spend alot of money on a new bag.

 

[RoadHunter91]

Pad will make a difference. I went from a 1.5 to a 5.1 and it was noticeable in the later season hunts. I believe 9 degrees was the lowest I experienced the year I made the switch. I also added a liner to assist later on in the season and felt that was a good option moving forward regardless of the pad change because of the bag cleanliness and comfort I experienced.

 

[sndmn11]

I think you'll see a drastic difference.

 

[Subliminal1]

Pad will help a lot.

 

[Trial153]

An insulated pad is a must. Especially considering your compressing the loft in the bottom of your bag, that cold just seeps through an uninsulated pad and hits you were your the most vulnerable

 

[StopMakingSense]

I just went with an XTherm at 7.3 and haven’t had to think about it. The weight penalty is marginal compared to the XLite 4.5 which is just 3oz.

If it’s in your budget the new NXT pads are even comfier.

You will notice a massive difference in comfort going from a sub 2 pad. I wouldn’t honestly consider anything less then a 4.

 

[GoatPackr]

Rather than a liner you might consider a set of puffy pants and coat/vest. Something dual purpose than can be used as a sleep system and clothing for the hunt.

Just a thought

Kris

 

[Drenalin]

An insulated pad will help tremendously, but your bag is also only comfort rated to 30. So you'll need to supplement that into the 20s most likely, i.e. liner, insulated clothes, etc.

 

[EdP]

Better pad insulation is likely to help. Were you cold where you were in heavy contact with the pad, overall, or both? If you could feel the cold thru the pad that's the place to start. I used a 72" long Z-rest pad and found I was cold at the shoulder and hips below 20F. A half length pad covers me from shoulder to hip, allows me to double up the pads for sleeping, and provides a butt pad during the day.

 

[Stave]

I use a neoair xterm and rei magma 15. That combo is comfortable 0 to 40. Any warmer and I have to completely unzip the bag. After getting an insulated pad I think it is essential

 

[rayporter]

if you find your self tossing and turning when you have a good bag, it is likely the pad..

 

[t_carlson]

Yes, it will definitely help.

I was on a backpack hunt last fall and temps dropped down into single digits. I had a WM Versalite and an X-Therm pad. I was TOO warm.

My hunting partner is one of those guys who is always cold. I was trying to talk him into upgrading his bag to a WM (he uses a synthetic BA bag of some sort). He thought I was crazy for paying north of $600 for a sleeping bag and $250 or so for a pad. We swapped systems one night so he could try my bag.

In the morning, I told him that his main problem is his pad. I paid close attention and could feel the cold coming up from the ground. It was very noticeable.

Several years ago, I went winter camping with my now wife. I didn't know much about sleep systems at the time, and she wanted to sleep on an inflatable mattress (not a sleeping pad - it was the kind that you blow up when company comes over and you don't have enough beds).

She was COLD all night. I was very comfortable on a cot with a foam pad underneath. At the time, I just chalked it up to her being female.

Pads make a HUGE difference.

 

[ColoradoCarp]

Great info everyone. Thank you. Seems a resounding...."get a new pad man"....just ordered one! Thanks. I have been trying to keep everything light as possible but ordered the Dura 8 Exped, on sale right now. Its not as light as their Ultra series or a number of other 4-6 R value pads from other brands, but it seems to me the Dura series is well regarded for its comfort, though yes at the high of end of reasonable weight for a backpacking pad. At this point, I'm fine to carry around a little more to try and maximize comfort. I've noticed the last couple years how quickly bad sleep and being tired has affected my ability to hunt well. I'm going to try to address that to its fullest extent. I might decide in a year or two that a middle ground is the best option, but at the moment I'm desperate to sleep better. Haha.

 

[Beendare]

Or you could add a waffle pad under the pad you have...they help a lot.

I agree with all of the guys above- ESPECIALLY when using a down bag- the R of the pad makes a huge difference.

Pads that aren't rated...or low R value are pretty much worthless.

 

[mtwarden]

Or you could add a waffle pad under the pad you have...they help a lot.

Yup- r values are additive. I carry a 20x50" Zlite pad on every trip (even day hunts)- I sit on it glassing/lunch, I can fold it up as a rear rest w/ a bipod, stuff under my inflatable pad for additional warmth. In the morning my routine is to stuff my sleeping bag and roll up the inflatable- it's nice to have the ccf pad to kneel on, especially so when camped on snow.

 

[StopMakingSense]

You'll love the new pad and it doesn't seem like you're doing anything that requires you to be uber-lite. Enjoy all of that new insulation!

 

[TheRepeatOffender]

IMO an insulated pad is a better investment than a warmer bag. You can always sleep in more clothes but that cold ground will pull the heat right out of you. Get the warmest you can afford. Well worth the weight and space in your pack.