Quick load short barrel 6CM

[Bobrobheimer]

Curious if someone with quick loads would be willing to run a load for a 6 creed with a short 16” barrel shooting 108 ELDMs and see what powders it comes back with as the top 3. Used H4350 for an 90gr hammer with fine results and started trying that and N150 for the 105s but curious what it suggests in the context of the shorter barrel and heavier for caliber bullet.

 

[wind gypsy]

108 ELDm?

 

[Bobrobheimer]

108 ELDm?

Yes - my mistake. Had the 105 hybrid in my head I guess.

 

[HuntHarder]

Quickload users: Is quickload worth getting? I hear Jake talk pretty highly of it.

 

[justin davis]

I don’t have quick load. But N555 works well in 6 creed

 

[wind gypsy]

What would classify a powder for top 3 ranking? Velocity?

No need to get fancy. H4350, RL16, N555. A guy could probably squeeze some FPS with RL17, RL26, superformance, hybrid100, Staball6.5?, etc but the others will do fine.

 

[Bobrobheimer]

What would classify a powder for top 3 ranking? Velocity?

No need to get fancy. H4350, RL16, N555. A guy could probably squeeze some FPS with RL17, RL26, superformance, hybrid100, Staball6.5?, etc but the others will do fine.

Don’t know how quickloads would choose/recommend that - Just heard on the shoot to hunt podcast about how quick loads usually comes back with good powders to try. I was curious in this case since the short barrel leaves the door open to not fully burn before the bullet leaves the muzzle and maybe get some extreme extreme spreads and of course leave some speed on the table. So far H4350 has worked alright for me and I have tried a ladder with N150. That’s all I have experimented with so far.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Curious if someone with quick loads would be willing to run a load for a 6 creed with a short 16” barrel shooting 108 ELDMs and see what powders it comes back with as the top 3. Used H4350 for an 90gr hammer with fine results and started trying that and N150 for the 105s but curious what it suggests in the context of the shorter barrel and heavier for caliber bullet.

Who's brass, makes a little different it seems based on what I see folks post. ~40gr H4350 with peterson brass is pretty common with the 108/109eldm.

 

[Bobrobheimer]

Who's brass, makes a little different it seems based on what I see folks post. ~40gr H4350 with peterson brass is pretty common with the 108/109eldm.

Lapua - cci small rifle primers.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Lapua - cci small rifle primers.

I feel like folks have posted Laupa charges a bit higher but verify. In general its a known entity with H4350, start a bit under 40gr and work back up and past looking for pressure.

 

[Tanner]

Thinking I’d start and end with H4350 and quit when you saw 2700-2800 and good repeatable accuracy. Peas and carrots there…

 

[Chris in TN]

Gordon's Reloading tool is free, though unsupported since Gordon died.

It's like QL for poors. I use it all the time.

I ran this with some assumptions and allowed it to go overpressure, to about 63kpsi. I try to stay at what I think are SAAMI levels myself.

All models are incorrect. Some are useful. I think GRT is useful. If you look at the top results and filter them to focus on temp-stable powders you'll end up with H4350, RL16, RL23, N550 and N560. I suspect N555 would work just as well too. N565 looks like it would be awesome if you could stuff enough into the case. I cut this off at 106% load density. It's hard to really reach 106% without a major crrrrrrunch as you seat. I prefer to stay closer to 95-103%ish. Of course if you want to try to find it, RL26 always looks great in these models too. I cut a bunch of the slower results out to stay within the board's 10000 character limit.

Anyway, here's a great wall of GRT-generated text:

--------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordons Reloading Tool 2021.2030-NIGHTLY
Parametric powder search by generic tolerance synthesis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
File : POWDER-MEASURE-TEMPLATE.grtload
Caliber : 6 mm Creedmoor (6mm CM, 6mm Creedmoor)
Projectile : Hornady, ELD-M 24561, 0.243, 108.00 grain, 1.2559 in
Seating depth : 0.4260 in
Case : 51.70 grain H2O, 1.9201 in
Cartridge length: 2.7500 in
Initial pressure: 3626 psi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tolerance-Window : Target Min. Max. Unit
maximum pressure : 62000 60760 63240 psi
Muzzle velocity : 2783.3 2666.4 2900.2 ft/s
Barrel Time general (BT) : - - - ms
Bullet Lead Time 10% pmax (BLT): - - - ms
Load ratio : 106.94 75 106 %
burnt propellant : - - - %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A T T E N T I O N - A T T E N T I O N - A T T E N T I O N
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Depending on the setting of the limiting tolerance windows, the charges can
exceed the specified maximum pressures, or have no meaningful, or even
a dangerous value. Please check a load prior to use for plausibility.

The order of the list depends on the composition of the powder list.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
propellant mass load ratio pmax v0 E0 burnt eff. BT BLT recoil
grain % psi ft/s ft-lb % % ms ms ft-lb


Hodgdon H4350 (2020-12-01) 41.99 89.8 63240 2744.3 1806 98.5 23.1 1.0031 0.9055 10.86 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Vihtavuori N565 (2021-10-22) 47.49 105.8 ▼59266 2744.6 1806 87.2 19.9 1.0462 0.9473 11.95 Working pressure close to the maximum permissible gas pressure!, Attention! Press charge! Can lead to unexpected pressure peaks!, Out of spec. tolerance
Alliant Reloder TS 15.5 (2021-09-30) 39.08 91.4 63199 2745.9 1808 100.0 24.8 1.0123 0.9071 10.25 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Alliant Reloder 22 (2021-03-29) 45.83 103.2 63238 2747.7 1810 89.8 21.6 1.0009 0.9063 11.59 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Winchester 760 (2020-09-22) 42.75 93.2 63206 2750.0 1813 98.7 23.4 0.9997 0.9041 11.06 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
ReloadSwiss RS 62 (2021-04-16) 44.22 97.1 63198 2750.9 1814 96.5 23.1 1.0239 0.9181 11.35 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
ADI AR 2209 (2021-03-16) 42.55 91.0 63219 2751.9 1816 97.5 22.9 0.9865 0.8966 11.02 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Hodgdon Superformance (2021-10-DEV-2) 45.88 95.2 63223 2752.1 1816 88.4 21.3 0.9878 0.8986 11.64 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Alliant Reloder 19 (2021-05-01) 45.02 101.4 63242 2756.0 1821 92.2 21.7 1.0057 0.9079 11.54 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Alliant Reloder 16 (2021-08-29) 41.84 98.4 63239 2756.0 1821 100.0 23.6 1.0176 0.9124 10.90 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Accurate LT-30 (2021-10-DEV-2) 35.41 76.5 63200 2758.4 1824 100.0 25.1 1.0070 0.8995 9.65 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Vihtavuori N550 (2021-09-27) 41.42 92.3 63229 2758.5 1824 100.0 23.3 1.0132 0.9095 10.85 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Hodgdon LeverEvolution (2021-01-28) 39.75 80.5 63217 2758.8 1825 100.0 24.0 1.0489 0.9256 10.49 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Vectan SP12 (2021-01-03) 49.60 105.9 ▼59299 2760.6 1827 90.7 20.8 1.0037 0.9207 12.47 Working pressure close to the maximum permissible gas pressure!, Attention! Press charge! Can lead to unexpected pressure peaks!, Out of spec. tolerance
Alliant 2000-MR (2021-03-01) 41.07 91.5 63202 2763.2 1831 100.0 23.9 0.9977 0.9005 10.79 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Ramshot Hunter (2021-01-07) 44.05 99.2 63233 2773.2 1844 97.0 23.0 0.9927 0.8997 11.48 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Norma MRP (2021-08-29) 46.65 102.9 63206 2779.5 1852 89.6 20.7 0.9884 0.8984 12.05 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Vihtavuori N560 (2021-09-30) 46.62 103.3 63238 2781.1 1854 89.7 21.3 1.0208 0.9167 12.07 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Alliant Reloder 23 (2020-04-08) 44.46 102.3 63109 2783.0 1857 100.0 23.0 1.0237 0.9182 11.65 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
Alliant Reloder 17 (2020-02-05) 42.68 90.8 62906 2783.1 1857 100.0 22.8 0.9724 0.8875 11.28 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
IMR 7828 SSC (2021-11-13) 46.37 102.2 63057 2783.2 1857 86.6 21.5 0.9883 0.8984 12.02 ATTENTION OVERPRESSURE!
ReloadSwiss RS 70 (2020-09-22) 45.93 99.2 62004 2785.0 1860 92.3 21.4 1.0236 0.9223 11.95 Working pressure close to the maximum permissible gas pressure!
Ramshot Magnum (2021-01-07) 48.51 103.2 61982 2794.9 1873 98.0 21.8 1.0280 0.9260 12.60 Working pressure close to the maximum permissible gas pressure!
ReloadSwiss RS 76 (2021-01-05) 50.50 105.8 ▼59813 2799.5 1879 95.5 20.2 1.0371 0.9399 13.09 Working pressure close to the maximum permissible gas pressure!, Attention! Press charge! Can lead to unexpected pressure peaks!, Out of spec. tolerance
ReloadSwiss RS 60 (2020-08-24) 43.12 94.1 61967 2807.8 1890 100.0 22.9 0.9738 0.8899 11.57 Working pressure close to the maximum permissible gas pressure!
Alliant Reloder 26 (2021-10-30) 47.26 100.6 61981 2828.3 1918 98.5 21.8 1.0241 0.9223 12.66 Working pressure close to the maximum permissible gas pressure!

 

[Chris in TN]

So far H4350 has worked alright for me

How much headache are you willing to endure for how much gain over H4350? None of the temp-stable powders I'd try to buy, show up in GRT, as being more than 40' faster than H4350. If you have it, use it.

 

[Bobrobheimer]

Thinking I’d start and end with H4350 and quit when you saw 2700-2800 and good repeatable accuracy. Peas and carrots there…

If I could get to 2700-2800 with the 108 and a 16” barrel I would be plenty happy. Factory Berger 105s when the barrel had 0-200 down it were doing 2570 or so. N150 probably gets something similar with the 108s… just based on the single pressure ladder I have so so far. maybe a touch more. Which I can live with - honestly I don’t want to mess with it too much. But I do see shooting a short 6 creed for many years to come so it would be good to figure out something to stick with.

The load I worked up with the 90gr Hammer HHT and ended up at 2800 fps.

 

[Tanner]

If I could get to 2700-2800 with the 108 and a 16” barrel I would be plenty happy. Factory Berger 105s when the barrel had 0-200 down it were doing 2570 or so. N150 probably gets something similar with the 108s… just based on the single pressure ladder I have so so far. maybe a touch more. Which I can live with - honestly I don’t want to mess with it too much. But I do see shooting a short 6 creed for many years to come so it would be good to figure out something to stick with.

The load I worked up with the 90gr Hammer HHT and ended up at 2800 fps.

Interesting. Having not owned a 16” 6 Creed myself, I was just extrapolating downwards from my 19” running the 109s at 2870. I’d want to see at least 2750 with the 108s in your setup.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I am 2760 at 18” with the 109s (and some other post similar) but I am running Peterson either large rifle primers. Sone folks with small rifle primers are running faster with the case hiding pressure more. Unless you have a slow barrel I’d think you should certainly get 2700.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

41.8 of H4350 was giving me 2930 with 112 Matchburners from my last 18” barrel.

I’ll be using a 16” this coming season and expecting 2850 with the same bullets.

 

[Bobrobheimer]

Interesting. Those all sound like hot loads near the limits but still maybe I have a slower barrel and probably more cautious about pressure having only been reloading several years now. But perhaps also that last inch or two approaching 16” has an out of proportion effect.

I will work up a pressure ladder with H4350 and report back.

 

[Chris in TN]

Interesting. Those all sound like hot loads near the limits but still maybe I have a slower barrel and probably more cautious about pressure having only been reloading several years now. But perhaps also that last inch or two approaching 16” has an out of proportion effect.

I will work up a pressure ladder with H4350 and report back.

The longer you go, the less each marginal inch matters. Or, from 16 to 18 makes much more difference than 24 to 26.

Also.....not speaking to anyone in particular here, just a general observation, but a lot of people see SAAMI max pressures as sort of starting points and if their primers aren't falling out after each shot they keep climbing from there. I gave that up, but I suspect you still see it a lot with internet-reported load data.