Quick Drop vs Danger Space

[B_Reynolds_AK]

How do you square Increased Danger Space with perfect Quick Drop?

These are both highly valued qualities, but, they don't necessarily compliment each other.

Where and when would you choose one gun over the other that is optimized for either?

Which will lead to increased effectiveness, hit rates and ultimately more killing?

Example 1: The 6 UM, developed with the intent of maximizing Danger Space. Does not line up with QD very well, ie 600 yards - 2.6 mil., requiring increased mental load to factor in the correction.

Example 2: 223 with 88 TMK's at 2750. Perfect Quick Drop ie 400 -2 mil, 500 - 3 mil, 600 - 4 mil.

 

[wpeach1912]

They’re inherently opposed to each other. It moreso comes down to how you’re applying your rifle. To utilize maximum point blank range and keep speed drop, you can dial your scope up about .6 at 100 to build it in. Then dial more if needed for longer shots. I like to keep hard dope on the rifle to have a quick reference if I need it.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

They’re inherently opposed to each other. It moreso comes down to how you’re applying your rifle. To utilize maximum point blank range and keep speed drop, you can dial your scope up about .6 at 100 to build it in. Then dial more if needed for longer shots. I like to keep hard dope on the rifle to have a quick reference if I need it.

It appears in your case, Increased Danger Space would be of more benefit, since you value and utilize MPBR.

 

[Macintosh]

Silly question maybe, but could someone define “danger space” and illustrate the real-world benefit between two cartridges? I think I understand the concept mostly how its used but not certain.

 

[RockAndSage]

Silly question maybe, but could someone define “danger space” and illustrate the real-world benefit between two cartridges? I think I understand the concept mostly how its used but not certain.

I asked this awhile back, and Form essentially explained it as the space behind the target that can still be hit by the bullet. So, the flatter shooting the cartridge, the further back the danger space. And, the further out the MPBR. The more ballistic arc, the less the danger space, as the bullet is coming in more at a downward angle.

 

[nate907]

I value a cartridge that bucks the wind and maximizes danger space. I've hunted with cartridges that have lined up perfectly with quick drop and never had a reason to apply it. I figure if my rangefinder dies in the field I'll just have to get a lot closer. I'm not even going to try and determine distance by guessing the size of an object, pumping it into some long forgotten formula and then applying quick drop. just my 2cents

 

[Macintosh]

I asked this awhile back, and Form essentially explained it as the space behind the target that can still be hit by the bullet. So, the flatter shooting the cartridge, the further back the danger space. And, the further out the MPBR. The more ballistic arc, the less the danger space, as the bullet is coming in more at a downward angle.

Is the assumption there “at the same solution”? Ie is it simply a cartridge that is more forgiving of ranging errors or a moving animal? Ie a 3.4mil solution hits anywhere between 300-360yards, versus a cartridge with a more arced trajectory where the same solution might only hit between 300-330?

 

[RockAndSage]

Is the assumption there “at the same solution”? Ie is it simply a cartridge that is more forgiving of ranging errors or a moving animal? Ie a 3.4mil solution hits anywhere between 300-360yards, versus a cartridge with a more arced trajectory where the same solution might only hit between 300-330?

Can't help on that one man, the math side of precision rifle shooting is still voodoo to me.

 

[Strider]

For me both are desirable but it’s a question whether ones has the means to support a hot rod with a large danger space.

As a guy on a limited gear budget cartridges that line up well with QD also tend to be more affordable to feed, longer barrel life, cheaper RF binos, etc. Also for me learning to use mils and doing so with a cartridge that lends its self to QD seems to have given me a more robust understanding of a mil system than buddies who from the start were relying on binos to tell me what to dial.

But if you one has the means to rebarrel a gun regularly or have multiple guns. Paired with good technology in binos. What is some one who has these things giving up shooting a hot rod?

 

[wpeach1912]

It appears in your case, Increased Danger Space would be of more benefit, since you value and utilize MPBR.

I don’t really use MPBR. Only in circumstances that i’m somewhere where I need to take a quick shot inside 300 with an unknown range. Just giving a method to utilize some benefits of both.

Silly question maybe, but could someone define “danger space” and illustrate the real-world benefit between two cartridges? I think I understand the concept mostly how it’s used but not certain.

It’s the horizontal distance that the trajectory maintains a “target size” window. MPBR is basically a utilization of danger space by setting zero at a range and defining your vitals as let’s say 8” vertically. You set your zero to have the highest part of the trajectory be +4” and then your MPBR is where is drops more than -4”. Danger space would be the distance it takes to exit the 8” window. At extended distances, it would just be the horizontal distance it takes to drop 8” vertically. Higher velocity and higher BCs extend danger space since the projectile can cover more horizontal ground in the time it takes to drop 8”.

 

[il_cop]

As @wpeach1912 alluded to, you can use both to create an 'adjustable' mpbr of sorts which allows you to have fewer set numbers to dial to based on a range window and a determined target height. Danger space is designed to help calculate hit rate on a given target height to allow for a window of ranging error. Or stated the other way, a miss rate that would endanger targets behind it.

Related - if you set your zero turret to your chosen speed drop factor, to a certain extent, youre determining the ranges at which you accept being a few tenths high or low and the range/s you want to be on target when you dial from there. Very similar to your mpbr "zero".

Typing this, Im realizing how complicated it sounds.
It's not. You can see how it works pretty simply on the jbm trajectory model with danger space selected and/or strelok pro. I'm sure most ballistic apps can do this, those are just what I use.

 

[Lawnboi]

Quick drop is cool to learn. But out to 500 yards, If you shoot a decent amount, it’s not hard to just remember a close ish drop off the speed of the bullet and range. That is if you shoot mils. Flat is nice but it is also nice to have a cartridge you shoot enough that you just know your drops at out to 500 yards.

This is a huge benefit of shooting similar or same cartridges for everything and is a large reason I shoot what I do.

 

[mt terry d]

I figure if my rangefinder dies in the field I'll just have to get a lot closer. I'm not even going to try and determine distance by guessing the size of an object, pumping it into some long forgotten formula and then applying quick drop. just my 2cents

If you know the general size of the animal you're hunting it's pretty simple to determine distance with a mil scope. ( probably moa too but I don't have one). I expect you already know this.
Of course it's always better to get closer when possible.

I have little faith in electronic gizmos. Yes, love my RF binos ( when they work; cold and falling snow
are common reasons for failure) and I don't rely on my phone/ballistics in the field. Laminated
drop chart on stock in print large enough to read without cheaters)

Re: Danger Zone
Is that how far the bullet may travel if missing?
If so I can't imagine that would be much of an issue
unless shooting at something skylined which is pretty much a no no.

 

[ID_Matt]

See quite a few guys on here purposely loading a cartridge down to line up perfectly with quick drop. I get where in a dire situation it could help.. maybe? If rangefinder isn't working you are guessing anyway. Or is it for someone who doesn't have a ballistic RF? I just can't see a reason that i would want to give up cartridge performance and wind number to match up to a chart.

4-2 = 2 is definitely easier than 4-2.4 = 1.6 but it isn't hard enough or where i would feel like i'd ever use it enough to warrant obsessing over.