Questions about the irrelevance of energy (ft-lbs)

[Stinky Coyote]

Nearing 80, less recoil was the number 1 reason for selling my magnums. At the same time though, I'm not happy compromising external & terminal performance. Hence, my keeping my 30-06.

This thread has been a real eye-opener. For me anyway, No one will ever convince me to hunt Grizzly with a 223 / 243 of any kind. That said - after reading all these posts - it seems my 6.5 PRC will effectively handle all the rest of my NA hunting. The cartridge being a nice balance of recoil, external and terminal ballistics.

Hunt safe ya'll.

yup, you've chosen well and have a very high versatility option for most anything in North America from 0-1000-ish yards with plenty of insurance built in, enjoy every minute out there

 

[Stinky Coyote]

And just to round out all possibilities.

Some element of ‘fear of potentially changing the game’ splashed in also, for whatever reasons, because that’s normal. Industry/Manufacturers may fear it will reduce sales if we realize we don’t need 1200 options to constantly spend money on and try, that we may see too much overlap etc? Some of it may be ego related. Thinking they know what’s best and more than most etc. Or that we’ve taken it as far as we can and won’t allow the thought of possibility that we are still actually crawling in diapers because they personally can’t see it.

Can't ignore the cheerleader effect either. Those just standing with their forum studs regardless their stance. Easy to see lots of that in threads, especially in certain forums. Like the people who watch the msm and parrot it word for word, no thinking required, someone else does it for them.

I could give a fack about the feelers or ego stuff, and or potential industry fear either as if one door closes others open. I don’t understand why a selfish reason needs to stand in way, I’m not driven by money or ego. I have no fears. I just ask questions and connect dots on what would be better for the team.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

gel picture

fbi example - what is given for info, impact velocity, 16" travel, finished diameter and weight, bunch of work along that travel represented visually by damage of various types

what I want to know is...

at the 7" mark what was the velocity, bullet weight, and sd...so from there we could see the work being transferred, and again what was it at the 8" mark, 9" mark???? and every damn inch of that travel, ie; what is the rate of bullet change in relation to the rate of work transferred, and more, where is the bulk of the workload along the travel, how much is that workload

what's the work transfer curve of that option? the dyno? what work output is it doing at this particular swim speed? or that swim speed? is it all at the front end where most useful? or do I need a linear option because the game is much larger than normal and need to get deeper as a 1st priority?

and I wanna see it at all useful impact velocities whether by doing every 200 fps and filling in the blanks from the deltas between and v-lookup tables feeding the outputs from the background etc....whatever it takes

we can't see any of that yet, but the info is there, we just need to learn how to get it

I hear those Garmin zero's are the sh1t...can they measure through gel? haha

we have only begun starting to ask the right questions on this

 

[Billogna]

gel picture

fbi example - what is given for info, impact velocity, 16" travel, finished diameter and weight, bunch of work along that travel represented visually by damage of various types

what I want to know is...

at the 7" mark what was the velocity, bullet weight, and sd...so from there we could see the work being transferred, and again what was it at the 8" mark, 9" mark???? and every damn inch of that travel, ie; what is the rate of bullet change in relation to the rate of work transferred, and more, where is the bulk of the workload along the travel, how much is that workload

what's the work transfer curve of that option? the dyno? what work output is it doing at this particular swim speed? or that swim speed? is it all at the front end where most useful? or do I need a linear option because the game is much larger than normal and need to get deeper as a 1st priority?

and I wanna see it at all useful impact velocities whether by doing every 200 fps and filling in the blanks from the deltas between and v-lookup tables feeding the outputs from the background etc....whatever it takes

we can't see any of that yet, but the info is there, we just need to learn how to get it

I hear those Garmin zero's are the sh1t...can they measure through gel? haha

we have only begun starting to ask the right questions on this

Sounds like you have your methodology pretty much worked out! All that's left is for you to get some gel and a Garmin and get to testing!! Perhaps a super high speed camera to measure the deceleration rate of the bullet as well so you can accurately know how fast the projectile is shedding energy. You can sit here and postulate until the cows come home... But I think it's time you get busy!! Time's a wastin!!

 

[Stinky Coyote]

It’s all good. Part of the plan. It’s seating in the minds. People need time to digest.

Let it go a couple pages at a time and who knows how much further we can take it.

We’re on a roll now boys.

 

[Seeknelk]

WTF! Less screen time, more shooting.

 

[HandgunHTR]

and we can math also why the 700 nitro stops short despite 5x the energy of the manlicker as it's sd is too low and so is the impact velocity

There was a reason why the 700 nitro didn't penetrate and it had nothing to do with SD.

 

[HandgunHTR]

yup, if we had dyno curves of work output along impact velocity range we could see those differences objectively but we don't have this sort of information, we might find relationships in front areas to ogive profiles to jacket thicknesses that allow us to see for goals we may have what options offer the work over what distances in the game that we are looking for, there may be plenty of small stuff that does more of this over the right distance than the big normals....well obviously there is, but since we don't know how to measure it yet to make it actually comparable we just 'like to think'

You keep bringing up "dyno curves". How good is your dyno curve when the car is on a slick road? Until you can understand why I even asked that question, you won't be able to have a meaningful discussion about this subject.

As for finding relationships in front areas to ogive profiles to jacket thicknesses to determine how a bullet will perform in game, what the hell do you think bullet manufacturers do when they design a bullet? Do you really think that they just figure out the in-flight ballistics profiles? And additionally, don't you think that if they had developed a way to "math" their way to adequately predicting how a bullet will perform in game they would use it? Are you so conceited that you think that you are the first person to have this "idea" and now that you have had it, some brilliant mathematician is going to come along, figure out your magic formula and then give you all the credit for thinking of it?

 

[bmart2622]

^yes, thats exactly what he thinks!!! But you should thank him because hes doing it for all of us!!!

 

[The Fish Box]