Question Regarding Tikka T3 300 Win Mag Load??

[Dobeman887]

I am currently trying to work up the best load possible for a Tikka T3 with a 1:11 twist. This is my neighbor's rifle that I "plan" on using to hunt free range Axis deer with in TX next year. So far I have only used Ramshot Hunter with 165gr and 180gr Barnes TTSX bullets. I have tried two different powder charges for each bullet. What I am finding, regardless of charge or bullet is that the first two shots are touching and the the third shot is about an inch or so high and right. I have shot on two different occasions with temps being around 50 degrees each time. Is the barrel heating up after the 2nd shot to cause that 3rd shot to do what it's doing? I was able to get some H4831sc and have loaded about 10 rounds but haven't tried them out yet. I usually am a big fan of Ramshot powders, but notice that Ramshot Hunter has dropped in price with the new "Grand" now out for significantly more. I suppose I could buy a pound and see how it does compared to Hunter. I plan on trying some ELD-X bullets as well. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[wind gypsy]

With how many groups has this phenomenon repeated?

 

[Dobeman887]

With how many groups has this phenomenon repeated?

Almost all 3 shot groups, and that is with a friend also shooting groups.

 

[wind gypsy]

Not how many shots, in how many separate 3 shot groups did that phenomenon repeat? How many did it not repeat?

 

[A382DWDZQ]

Shoot a 10 shot group and see how it goes. For hunting, about an inch high and right, I wouldn’t worry about. You have two in the same hole and the 3rd is one moa off, which isn’t going to be that big a deal under 400 yards.

 

[Dobeman887]

Not how many shots, in how many separate 3 shot groups did that phenomenon repeat? How many did it not repeat?

Virtually every three shot group. We would go down and inspect the target for verification (probably about 5 minutes between shooting groups), and then shoot our next group of three. It just repeated I would say 9/10 times, not dependent on powder charge or bullet weight. The same pattern repeated for myself and my friend.

 

[Sadie]

A slower powder will sometimes correct this.

 

[Dobeman887]

A slower powder will sometimes correct this.

So what powder would you recommend? I just put together a few different load combinations using 168gr Barnes TTSX and IMR 4350, Ramshot Grand, and H4831SC. Haven't gotten out to test them yet though. I really like Ramshot powders simply because they meter so much better than the others through my Hornady powder dropper. I really hate to pay for an electronic powder dispenser because they are so expensive (RCBS is like $800 and Hornady's is like $400).

 

[sodaksooner]

H1000? I run IMR4831 and it groups well. Not a Tikka though. I agree with others. Shoot a bigger group and see what it does. If I am at the range, i keep the bolt open and let it cool for a few minutes after each shot. I have a fairly heavy spiral fluted barrel and it takes a while to heat up. Usually shot 5 is where mine moves a bit, but not as far as yours.

 

[Sadie]

my experience with 300 win mags has been good with reloader 22, 4831, h1000. Off hand I don't know where ramshot burn rate compares to these.

 

[Dobeman887]

H1000? I run IMR4831 and it groups well. Not a Tikka though. I agree with others. Shoot a bigger group and see what it does. If I am at the range, i keep the bolt open and let it cool for a few minutes after each shot. I have a fairly heavy spiral fluted barrel and it takes a while to heat up. Usually shot 5 is where mine moves a bit, but not as far as yours.

I will do that-I have plenty of various rounds made and will test as soon as I get a chance. Between work, turkey hunting, and fishing, shooting is on the back burner at the moment.

 

[Dobeman887]

my experience with 300 win mags has been good with reloader 22, 4831, h1000. Off hand I don't know where ramshot burn rate compares to these.

I think Ramshot Hunter is between 4831 and H1000-if I remember correctly, H1000 has a pretty fast burn rate. I have no idea what the Ramshot Grand burn rate is since it is pretty new-guessing it is similar to Ramshot Magnum which is pretty fast too. I do have some rounds made with Reloader 22 with some ELD-X bullets (can't remember the charge/weight of bullet). Made those a couple years ago for a Remington 700 in 300 Win Mag, that didn't group for shit out of that gun, but nothing seems to group well out of that rifle. It is my step-son's and I think it was produced in the "lower quality" Remington years. I know Tikkas are awesome rifles and my neighbor has shot beautiful groups, and at great distance- just don't know the combination that the guy who made the rounds for him used, except that it was a 165gr Barnes TTSX. He doesn't feel comfortable asking the guy what load he used (don't know exactly why), but either way I'm lucky he is letting me use the rifle, and I have plenty of time to figure out a good load.

 

[Choupique]

What I am finding, regardless of charge or bullet is that the first two shots are touching and the the third shot is about an inch or so high and right. I have shot on two different occasions with temps being around 50 degrees each time. Is the barrel heating up after the 2nd shot to cause that 3rd shot to do what it's doing?

Just what it does. Have you laid 3 separate 3 shot groups over the same target or shot a 9/10+ shot group with it? That's probably just how it shoots.

 

[Andouille]

There's no need to guess on the relative speeds of powders, look at a powder burn rate chart and load data to match powders to appropriate bullet weights. Be safe and save time by using data. h1000 is a slower powder best suited for 180gr+, and a favorite of many for 200-220gr. ram shot Grand is a tad slower. H4831 is a little slower and I use it for 190gr bullets, and it's likely too slow for 165gr. H4350 has a good burn rate for 160-190gr.

See attached chart and check out free online load data from Hodgdon and Barnes.

 

[Dobeman887]

There's no need to guess on the relative speeds of powders, look at a powder burn rate chart and load data to match powders to appropriate bullet weights. Be safe and save time by using data. h1000 is a slower powder best suited for 180gr+, and a favorite of many for 200-220gr. ram shot Grand is a tad slower. H4831 is a little slower and I use it for 190gr bullets, and it's likely too slow for 165gr. H4350 has a good burn rate for 160-190gr.

See attached chart and check out free online load data from Hodgdon and Barnes.

Thank you very much for that information- I had seen burn rate charts before, but didn't know exactly how they correlated with bullet weight. Glad I only loaded 10 rounds of 168gr Barnes using Ramshot Grand. I did load 10 rounds of H4350 with 168gr Barnes-will see if that performs the best.

 

[Andouille]

Thank you very much for that information- I had seen burn rate charts before, but didn't know exactly how they correlated with bullet weight. Glad I only loaded 10 rounds of 168gr Barnes using Ramshot Grand. I did load 10 rounds of H4350 with 168gr Barnes-will see if that performs the best.

The Barnes might group well with the Ram shot, but your velocity is likely to be quite low. H4350 and 168 Barnes loaded to 3.360" coal per Barnes load data should be on the right track! I recently loaded 165 bonded bullets for a 300wm Tikka using a "middle weight" powder charge and had a promising load with no pressure signs and a moderate velocity of about 3040fps. Read the "painless load development" thread if you haven't yet, it will save you a lot of time.

Tikka Min mag loading requires careful consideration of seating depth, because the magazines are very short and bullets cannot be seated very far out in the cases. In most cases loading to 3.340" or maybe 3.360" COAL (if it fits your magazine) is a good starting point, and it means that you'll have a fair bit of bullet jump to the lands of the rifling. I haven't measured jump with a 168ttsx at 3.360 COAL, but it's probably 0.080" or more for a Tikka WM. I've read many times that Barnes TTSX like a good bit of jump, so this is not an issue.

 

[Dobeman887]

With how many groups has this phenomenon repeated?

At least ten 3 shot groups. I also had my friend shoot several 3 shot groups and the same scenario played out. So, the shooter is out of the equation. Used Ramshot Hunter in all loads shot to this point, using two different charges for the 165gr Barnes TTSX and 180gr Barnes TTSX.

 

[Dobeman887]

The Barnes might group well with the Ram shot, but your velocity is likely to be quite low. H4350 and 168 Barnes loaded to 3.360" coal per Barnes load data should be on the right track! I recently loaded 165 bonded bullets for a 300wm Tikka using a "middle weight" powder charge and had a promising load with no pressure signs and a moderate velocity of about 3040fps. Read the "painless load development" thread if you haven't yet, it will save you a lot of time.

Tikka Min mag loading requires careful consideration of seating depth, because the magazines are very short and bullets cannot be seated very far out in the cases. In most cases loading to 3.340" or maybe 3.360" COAL (if it fits your magazine) is a good starting point, and it means that you'll have a fair bit of bullet jump to the lands of the rifling. I haven't measured jump with a 168ttsx at 3.360 COAL, but it's probably 0.080" or more for a Tikka WM. I've read many times that Barnes TTSX like a good bit of jump, so this is not an issue.

I have made 10 rounds using H4350 and 165gr Barnes (don't remember what charge I used off the top of my head), but am yet to test them. I know my COL is 3.340 because of that short mag. Just out of curiosity, do you know if the new T3x models also use that short magazine? Thanks for the Barnes Load Data charts, that is what I have been using.

 

[blacktailcentral]

H4831sc 75 gr
174 hammer hunter
3.46, .050” of lands (longer than sami spec)
3100fps 24 inch proof
4 shot group below

 

[huntsd]

H4831sc 75 gr
174 hammer hunter
3.46, .050” of lands (longer than sami spec)
3100fps 24 inch proof
4 shot group below

that out of a tikka?