Question for all you Tikka owners

[HellsCanyon]

Sorry in advance for the long winded post, questions are at the bottom

I’ve been wanting to do some trick work for Tikka customers for awhile. Finally pulled the trigger and ordered some tooling and drew up some plans for what I’d like to do.

I’m a big fan of the action, it’s a great platform for some of the medium weight calibers. The SAUMS/WSM’s are in my opinion optimum for the action and magazine restrictions on a hunting rifle.

One thing I’ve never been a fan of with the Tikka is the recoil lug design. After you bed a few of them, you really see just how little surface area is responsible for handling the recoil and keeping things where they need to be.

Another feature I abhor is the tapered action face. It mates up best with a 1.125 OD barrel tennon. Considering the threads are .9985 in diameter plus a few thousandths for thread relief and we’re left with .075” surface contact.

Clearly these issues are not a problem as the Tikka builds shoot great, never had an issue with one. But I’ve always said overkill is underrated....

Im going to start converting the Tikkas to a Remington style lug and facing the action back to 1.200” OD and blueprinting action threads and lugs. Should be a very nice setup when done.

What I need YOUR help with, is coming up with a designated Tikka carbon barrel contour.

I currently am producing 3 different barrel contours. I’ve made some changes since the recent group buy last summer. However all of my contours run a 1.250” tennon OD (too big for a tikka build, it looks terrible). I have a “light hunter” that has a 3” tennon length and a muzzle OD of .740” at 26” (slightly heavier than a standard #5 contour), a “Heavy Hunter” which is similar to a Sendero contour (3” tennon, muzzle OD of .860” at 26”), and a “Tactical” contour (.900” at 28” length, 3” long tennon, straight taper).

The difference between the light hunter and heavy hunter contour is 4-5 oz. the Tactical contour weighs 6-7 oz heavier than the Heavy Hunter contour.

For those of you that would consider a Tikka rebarrel/build, how likely are you to restock your action at the same time? If I build a Sendero type contour, you’re going to no doubt need an aftermarket stock. If I make a smaller #5 or similar contour, you might be able to get away with a factory stock but it’s unlikely, but you’ll also save a few oz of weight.

I see pros and cons for a Heavy and Light Tikka contour. Figured I’d go to my customer base and see what y’all prefer.

Mike


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[dotman]

Any way to make a lightweight or feather weight carbon contour? I think Carbon Six has one, that could be expanded to other rifles as well not just Tikka. I have a Forbes that if I could get a lighter weight carbon barrel for I would be extremely happy.

 

[HuntHarder]

I like the idea of smaller diameter with saving a few ounces. I was wondering what you think of a 30 nosler on the tikka action. It is slightly shorter than the 300 win, but boasts better performance than the wsm.

 

[HellsCanyon]

Any way to make a lightweight or feather weight carbon contour? I think Carbon Six has one, that could be expanded to other rifles as well not just Tikka. I have a Forbes that if I could get a lighter weight carbon barrel for I would be extremely happy.

Negative. For a few reasons. One of them being i like to maintain at least a .650” OD on my steel core. This allows the threading of a 5/8:24” brake. My barrels don’t have a steel “bell” on the end because it inhibits my composite wrap. You can only Bell up at the muzzle end when you filament wind carbon, which is not what I want to do when making a barrel.

Anyways, if I maintain a .650” steel diameter, I like to maintain at least .030” composite thickness at the muzzle. My barrels are then finished with a different wrap that’s about .010” thick. So that gets us to a minimum .730” OD at the muzzle.

I could potentially drop the steel liner down to .625 and run a finished contour of .705” OD at the muzzle with a 1.200” tennon OD. I want to maintain at least .150” wall thickness on any core so this would be good for a 30 caliber and a 9/16 brake.

Mike


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[Ashy Larry]

I like the idea....wishing I haven't already cerakoted my current factory barrel. I would want the smallest/lightest contour available. What kind of weight savings over factory? Looks like you're going from 22.5-26" so any savings would be a marvel.

 

[dotman]

Negative. For a few reasons. One of them being i like to maintain at least a .650” OD on my steel core. This allows the threading of a 5/8:24” brake. My barrels don’t have a steel “bell” on the end because it inhibits my composite wrap. You can only Bell up at the muzzle end when you filament wind carbon, which is not what I want to do when making a barrel.

Anyways, if I maintain a .650” steel diameter, I like to maintain at least .030” composite thickness at the muzzle. My barrels are then finished with a different wrap that’s about .010” thick. So that gets us to a minimum .730” OD at the muzzle.

I could potentially drop the steel liner down to .625 and run a finished contour of .705” OD at the muzzle with a 1.200” tennon OD. I want to maintain at least .150” wall thickness on any core so this would be good for a 30 caliber and a 9/16 brake.

Mike


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What if you removed the option of a brake?

 

[HellsCanyon]

I like the idea....wishing I haven't already cerakoted my current factory barrel. I would want the smallest/lightest contour available. What kind of weight savings over factory? Looks like you're going from 22.5-26" so any savings would be a marvel.

My light hunter profile with 1.250” at 24” is already at 3 lbs depending on finished tennon length.

You really don’t save much weight by going carbon, you do get much better performance at the same weight though. I’ve done rigidity testing and my Heavy Hunter contour is double the rigidity of an unwrapped stainless core while just weighing 6 oz more.... the Tactical contour is STUPID STIFF. Twice that of the Heavy Hunter profile and just 6 oz heavier.


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[HellsCanyon]

What if you removed the option of a brake?

Doable. Two things going against running sub .600” OD cores. I’m the only carbon barrel on the market that runs a straight contour for the majority of my barrel core. Most everyone else runs a tapered core. A tapered core is MUCH easier to machine and maintain straightness. But because of my fiber layup, a straight contour is MUCH better. Very hard to maintain parallel fiber orientation on a tapered core.

Steel is finicky stuff when you remove large quantities of it. It tends to warp very very easily. That’s why we do two things. Maintain a .150” barrel wall thickness, and my cores are not only heat treated/stress relieved, they are crogenically treated. Benchmark has a new in house process that cools my Barrels to -300* F, 3 time over 3 days and they are also heated to 300* F after each cooling session. This does some pretty incredible stuff to the Barrels and the machining quality of the Barrels goes through the roof. Before this process we were having a 20% reject rate due to warping on my contours. That’s dropped below 5% with this process.

Mike


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[Journeyman]

Is there a measurable difference in heat dissipation by using a heavier contour carbon barrel in addition to the extra stiffness?

 

[HellsCanyon]

Is there a measurable difference in heat dissipation by using a heavier contour carbon barrel in addition to the extra stiffness?

Good question. The Composites used in my barrels transfer heat INCREDIBLY well. On par with aluminum, but they transfer heat better along their fibers instead of through fibers. Basically heat travels better parallel with the fibers. because the fibers run parallel with the bore they pull heat away from the chamber very very quickly. The more material you have the more it acts as a heat sink (heat travels to cooler areas). So in theory a thicker contour will pull more heat. How much that ACTUALLY matters in barrel performance or barrel life is yet to be determined.

Clear as mud?

Mike


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[Dioni A]

I would go as light as you think you can while maintaining the rigidity of say a #5 steel barrel. You should still have better accuracy than most custom barrels and be hard to compete with on weight also. You could possibly go lighter on the core contour and make a thread adapter to get back up to a standard 5/8 24 thread. Maybe look into making your own 30 Cal brake with a smaller thread?

 

[HOT ROD]

I have a Tikka t3 lite 270 wsm.. With a manners mcs eht/ehta... Would like to make it a 6.5wsm... Mike what are Ur thoughts on this build... With Ur carbon barrel?

 

[HellsCanyon]

I would go as light as you think you can while maintaining the rigidity of say a #5 steel barrel. You should still have better accuracy than most custom barrels and be hard to compete with on weight also. You could possibly go lighter on the core contour and make a thread adapter to get back up to a standard 5/8 24 thread. Maybe look into making your own 30 Cal brake with a smaller thread?

That’s the direction I’m leaning. 1.20 tennon with a .620” core OD and run a Rem Var style barrel contour. Still able to run a 9/16” brake if needed and weight should be very very acceptable.

Mike


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Unless I'm overlooking something can't you just mill a slot into a regular T3/T3x stock (that can fit the contour obviously) to accommodate bedding the recoil lug? That's all I did with my M695 in the factory stock since I had a contour that would still fit into it.

 

[HellsCanyon]

Unless I'm overlooking something can't you just mill a slot into a regular T3/T3x stock (that can fit the contour obviously) to accommodate bedding the recoil lug? That's all I did with my M695 in the factory stock since I had a contour that would still fit into it.

You’re correct it takes about 10 minutes on the mill to inlet it for a Rem style lug. Mcmillan also inlets for it. I ordered a stock last week for the first build. PTG is making recoil lugs to match the hexagon shape of the Tikka action as well. I’m by no means the first person to do this with the Tikkas and don’t claim to be. Hope I didn’t give that impression.

I have seen how a couple other smiths have faced off the Tikka actions however and it was cringe worthy.... I’ll be single point chasing threads, and truing up action lugs and face all in one operation. That part is critical.

Mike


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Oh I didn't get that impression, I was just giving a suggestion that folks didn't necessarily need a new stock unless the contour dictated it off the bat. Makes things a bit more tolerable on the budget if folks are needing to do things in stages.

Yeah the matched profile lugs will look a bit slicker but the rem style aren't a sore thumb (at least in my mind ). The smith that did mine had done work on M695's in the past and had some tooling/jigs for working on the action. I didn't get into it too heavily I just told him to make it shoot well which it does so success. That factory composite stock is nothing fancy but I haven't been motivated to change it out as its moderately stuff and the platform shoots just fine as is. However once I get some time on that McMillian game series stock it may shift my thinking.

 

[HuntHarder]

I see where you said the Tikka action is better for shorter cartridges, how do you think a 30 nosler would do in a tikka action? I like the 300 wsm, but I would rather have the 30 nosler or 300 win.

 

[HellsCanyon]

I see where you said the Tikka action is better for shorter cartridges, how do you think a 30 nosler would do in a tikka action? I like the 300 wsm, but I would rather have the 30 nosler or 300 win.

With a tikka magazine and 215’s.... not well. I can’t even run my 280Ackley/168 VLD load to the lands. The 30 Nosler with 215’s fits in a standard Rem 700 Long action magazine box (3.6”ish). Tikka mags are about 3.39” with spaces removed. WSM are where it’s at for Tikkas and mag chambers.

Mike


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Mike, have you seen the AICS bottom metal that Mountain Tactical released that is designed to allow up to 3.6"? Comes with an extended bolt stop (longer than the long action stop), needs a little milling on the front of the trigger block and front of the receiver's magazine cutout per the video on it.

But yes I concur its a great WSM platform with a LA stop. The billet mags mountain tactical is releasing fit a WSM body in the long action getting rid of the need to modify a factory mag.

 

[HuntHarder]

I was thinking that too Pods. I saw that the Aics mags go to 3.6" but that is still right on the edge for the nosler. hmm. Decisions. I love the tikka action, but if it is going to limit me, I guess it might end up being a remington action.