Quality arrows without paying for an expensive “component” system

[5MilesBack]

I have a $2,000 compound set up and a $1,000 recurve set up, why would I skimp an extra $20-40 on assembling better arrows?

I guess if I was seeing problems consistently with the ends of my arrows, I'd be looking for a solution as well. But I just haven't seen any need for that the last 15 years, and I intentionally shoot a lot of things that most people wouldn't.

 

[Beendare]

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[Bump79]

Have gone back and forth on the best setup for my needs.

At the end of the day it's hard to compare the cost of any "system" to the simple and proven match grade axis with simple and cheap hit insert. Brass or stainless pending your weight desires.

I think collors are overkill, especially with the associated cost. You can damn near buy 2 dozen axis for the cost of 1 dozen rigged up fancy arrows with collors.

Axis will shoot tight groups into elk vitals all the same. Plan on smashing or losing or an animal breaking a couple arrows a year anyways.

Put financial and mental resources into tuning your bow or getting more time in the woods, rather than a fancy arrow setup.

That's my .02 cents lately

My .02 cents. A HIT system is inherently weak for a side impact. I've had many blow out the side of a shaft. For me it's all about confidence when that arrow let's loose on an animal.

He's the cheap simple fix. Contact Lancaster archery and tell them you're arrows outside diameter and ask which aluminum shaft has the matching inside diameter. Buy one shaft for like $10 (or find scrap end cuttings) cut them to your desired length (at least to half way over through HIT) and glue them on as collars.

This adds a lot of durability. People have been footing arrows for a long time this way.

Elk River Archery sells them cut I believe.

Now you have .04 cents

 

[Bump79]

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to single you out….I’ve seen many guys commenting on forums that had problems with arrow assembly.

IME, assembling these properly not only makes the concentricity better but it also has proven to make them stronger.

I’ve seen guys complaining the ends are splitting…and it turns out they are using hot melt or a process that is weaker than Easton engineered. Duh.

I suppose its endemic with bowhunters that we like to experiment and tweak our gear….I’m guilty Of that myself.

Bottom line, spend time squaring and milling the ends of these carbons for a better mating between shaft and insert or BH ants I have had strong arrows without the need of additional components.

View attachment 357660
My 2 decades old arrow squaring and BH spinner With my attentive assistant in the background- grin.
I use 200 or 320 grit sandpaper. If you are good with a carpenters square these are easy to build.

I like it! Also, something that I have found to be critical is to square, use the provided chamfer tool AND chamfer the exterior of the shaft a little bit. Helps splintering in my experience.

 

[5MilesBack]

My .02 cents. A HIT system is inherently weak for a side impact. I've had many blow out the side of a shaft. For me it's all about confidence when that arrow let's loose on an animal.

What's a "side impact"? Man, in 15 years and tens of thousands of arrows shot I've never had a HIT blow out the side of the shaft........even during testing while shooting BH's through 3/4" plywood at severe angles. Are people shooting light spine arrows when they have all these problems?

 

[Trial153]

What the hell is a side impact ? Are we taking about the same thing here? Arrows right?


I never had any arrow, hit anything with anything other then then front of the shaft.

 

[Trial153]

HITs, even without, but preferably with a solid flanged collar like IW or VPA are a very strong and consistent performing system.

They work well because they build on the tolerances of the shaft and with no part of the system past the end of the shaft except the broad it minimizes lateral force AFTER the shot. This is key for me as animal isn’t static and it’s movement will apply force to the arrow laterally at times.

 

[bsnedeker]

What the hell is a side impact ? Are we taking about the same thing here? Arrows right?


I never had any arrow, hit anything with anything other then then front of the shaft.

Are you telling me you've never walked up on an animal and needed to beat it to death with an arrow? Happens all the time!

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[LONE HUNTER]

Yeah.......the only thing I have had an axis break on is a direct rock hit, and even then sometimes they survive. I am shooting the 300s though so they are thicker. The thing about the HIT system that I am sold on is, no way to bend. It's either good or its broken. I got tired of outserts bending. I never have tried the steel outserts.

 

[Beendare]

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[Trial153]

Yes, if I want a small diameter it’s going to be .204 with hits

Only other thing that’s over looked is …like ACC and Spartan sized shafts. Something to be said about smaller diameter and using standard H size inserts.

 

[Bump79]

What's a "side impact"? Man, in 15 years and tens of thousands of arrows shot I've never had a HIT blow out the side of the shaft........even during testing while shooting BH's through 3/4" plywood at severe angles. Are people shooting light spine arrows when they have all these problems?

Thanks for the smart comment. Let's be sure not give anyone the benefit of the doubt here.

How's this. Have you EVER hit something perfectly perpendicular in both axis where the force is exerted directly down the shaft with no lateral side load onto the carbon?

Maybe my terminology isn't perfect but my point was simple. Hitting something hard perfectly straight is unlikely and I have had arrows on misses (3d and hunting) bend and bust out the side of the carbon in front of the hit insert. These were either 340 or 300 Axis shafts. I guess my experience is invalid?

Would I shoot something again without a collar? Yeah I'm not saying that a HIT is a bad system (its my preferred system) at all. But if I can easily reinforce it with a cheap aluminum arrow isn't it stronger? I find it tough to argue that it isn't and this is a very well known issue with this system.

To be fair, it does depend some on the quality of broadhead or tip. If it is a lower quality head it will more easily bend and makes it more likely to cause issues.

 

[Lowg08]

Easton axis 5mm. Standard components.

 

[LONE HUNTER]

Maybe my terminology isn't perfect but my point was simple. Hitting something hard perfectly straight is unlikely and I have had arrows on misses (3d and hunting) bend and bust out the side of the carbon in front of the hit insert. These were either 340 or 300 Axis shafts. I guess my experience is invalid?

The difficulty of forums is a lot gets lost just writing text. Either way, they do break on misses and hard surfaces I will concur. Albeit I haven't seen the same type failure you are describing. Everyone here is just going off their own experiences. If you don't like Axis arrows its all good but I have had great luck with them.

 

[5MilesBack]

Hitting something hard perfectly straight is unlikely and I have had arrows on misses (3d and hunting) bend and bust out the side of the carbon in front of the hit insert. These were either 340 or 300 Axis shafts. I guess my experience is invalid?

That's why I included my comment about shooting BH's at severe angles through 3/4" plywood.......to simulate angled hits. And I've still never seen what you describe. I'm sure it's possible, especially if you throw on a very long BH.......I've just never seen that personally.

I also often hear of guys mushrooming the tips on these types of arrows. That's only possible IF the HIT insert breaks free. If the insert stays put, the point can't push further back into the shaft.

I guess the better question might be......why do so many seem to have issues with this type of setup, yet others don't? Beendare has been shooting Axis arrows longer than I have, and I personally know that he used to shoot at 80lbs with a longer draw. Yet he doesn't see these issues either. I shoot at 75lbs and almost 33" draw, and haven't seen the extent of these issues that many seem to have. That's why I love these .204" ID arrows, they're tough. However, I have seen a few types that are more brittle than others.

 

[Beendare]

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[Trial153]

This is all so over blown. It’s really simple. If you don’t want to spring for quality components. Just shoot a .246 shaft and call it a day. You really not losing anything.

 

[Marble]

That's why I included my comment about shooting BH's at severe angles through 3/4" plywood.......to simulate angled hits. And I've still never seen what you describe. I'm sure it's possible, especially if you throw on a very long BH.......I've just never seen that personally.

I also often hear of guys mushrooming the tips on these types of arrows. That's only possible IF the HIT insert breaks free. If the insert stays put, the point can't push further back into the shaft.

I guess the better question might be......why do so many seem to have issues with this type of setup, yet others don't? Beendare has been shooting Axis arrows longer than I have, and I personally know that he used to shoot at 80lbs with a longer draw. Yet he doesn't see these issues either. I shoot at 75lbs and almost 33" draw, and haven't seen the extent of these issues that many seem to have. That's why I love these .204" ID arrows, they're tough. However, I have seen a few types that are more brittle than others.

Good points my friend!

I can say I have mushroomed just a few with direct impacts to rocks, concrete and I think a couple times an old oak stump that was super dry and hard.

But that's out of several dozen arrows and years of shooting.

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[5MilesBack]

I can say I have mushroomed just a few with direct impacts to rocks, concrete and I think a couple times an old oak stump that was super dry and hard.

But that's out of several dozen arrows and years of shooting.

The only .204 arrows I had this happen with were BE Rampage 250's and GT Kinetic XT 200's. And at the time several people were reporting having problems getting inserts to stick in both of these arrow shafts. One of my Kinetics hit a rock under the surface and when I pulled it out.......I held the arrow vertically and the carbon all fell down around my hand like an umbrella frame. That carbon splintered like that almost all the way to the fletching. With all my other .204's the worst I've seen is mushroomed FP's. I even hit a steel T-post square on from 50 yards with one of my TR Crush 300's with a HIT insert, and all it did was mushroom the point.

Watch, I'm probably jinxing myself. I better get some collars before this next season.

 

[Marble]

The only .204 arrows I had this happen with were BE Rampage 250's and GT Kinetic XT 200's. And at the time several people were reporting having problems getting inserts to stick in both of these arrow shafts. One of my Kinetics hit a rock under the surface and when I pulled it out.......I held the arrow vertically and the carbon all fell down around my hand like an umbrella frame. That carbon splintered like that almost all the way to the fletching. With all my other .204's the worst I've seen is mushroomed FP's. I even hit a steel T-post square on from 50 yards with one of my TR Crush 300's with a HIT insert, and all it did was mushroom the point.

Watch, I'm probably jinxing myself. I better get some collars before this next season.

I wouldn't get any collars per se. But maybe the broadhead adapter ring, BARs, from easton. Since I started shooting those in hunting situations I haven't had a damaged arrow.

Even when I hit a rock they are good. Sometimes the impact is hard enough the nock blows off the back of the arrow. The tip is still good.

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