Q&A Leupold VX-3HD 3.5-10x40mm

[gatekeeper]

That was me trusting them, also my younger cousin who happened to be with me when we discovered the zero shift my vx3 had.
I felt bad i put him on the leupold fan train years ago. He was done with them as soon as he saw me drop and shoot it to recreate the zero shift. He started realizing he was always clicking a few clicks to zero everytime he uncased a rifle.
He had a lot more scopes than me, but good thing for some reason, ebay is gobbling up leupold scopes for crazy money. We financed a small fleet of new trijicon, nightforce and swfa from a large fleet of of leupolds from modern to back to the early 90s

And ironically the thing that got this whole thing rolling was I was about to buy a
either a new mk5 5-25 or a Vortex lht 4.5-22. He told me hold up, you might want to check the testing feedback here.
So he might have saved me a bundle cause i was still blaming my rifle, loads, mounts, suppressor etc , but then he ended up selling all his scopes because my drop test confirmed his suspicions. Lol

 

[Billy Goat]

I have always had this image of a black cowboy hat dude with a bandana around his neck talking about checking zero when you get to a hunt. You hop off the plane, gun has been in a case but it's bounced around in flight, plus all the other transport stuff. Gotta check zero, if you can't shoot, use this laser thing.


Honestly, it was my experience that it's what you needed to do. Check, and actually readjust zero all the time, just from typical use.
Don't forget to beat on your turret too so everything actually moves like it's supposed to.


I mean damn, I'm really a bowhunter. If I travel to hunt, it's with a bow. I spent years not trusting that a truck gun in my Farm truck was still dialed in week to week, yet I could take a bow near cross country and didn't worry.

Guess you only know what you know, or don't know what you don't know. I think that's what the real phrase is.

 

[Fowl Play]

Ugh… with all the chatter recently decided to read these tests and do a little google searching. Why?!?! I love my wind plex reticle lol Have a Mark 5HD but most of the convo seems to be here.

These tests are interesting to see. Anecdotally, closest I have come to this test has been traveling on 3x cross country flights with my rifle. I have no idea what’s it’s truly been through, but my rifle case looks like it could have triple back flipped down a mountain after all these baggage handlers. So far I have had no loss of zero. Rifle still prints MOA groups @100yrds. And rifle has prob seen 300 rounds in multiple trips over 3 years. Of course all that proves is my gun case is excellent.

I mostly rifle hunt whitetail but had bought this scope to up my game for my western hunts. Sounds like I’m buying a NF now and will reserve the Leupold for my east coast gun.

Honestly I doubt we will see Leupold address this. I may need to go back and look at the results again but even the failed scopes are still “minute of deer” out to 150-200 maybe? So their “bread and butter” customers might never actually see a problem.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Honestly I doubt we will see Leopold address this. I may need to go back again and look at the results again but even the failed scopes are still “minute of deer” out to 150-200 maybe? So their “bread and butter” customers might never actually see a problem.

I think you are 100% correct that most hunters/shooters never realize there is a problem.

 

[SDHNTR]

Ugh… with all the chatter recently decided to read these tests and do a little google searching. Why?!?! I love my wind plex reticle lol Have a Mark 5HD but most of the convo seems to be here.

These tests are interesting to see. Anecdotally, closest I have come to this test has been traveling on 3x cross country flights with my rifle. I have no idea what’s it’s truly been through, but my rifle case looks like it could have triple back flipped down a mountain after all these baggage handlers. So far I have had no loss of zero. Rifle still prints MOA groups @100yrds. And rifle has prob seen 300 rounds in multiple trips over 3 years. Of course all that proves is my gun case is excellent.

I mostly rifle hunt whitetail but had bought this scope to up my game for my western hunts. Sounds like I’m buying a NF now and will reserve the Leopold for my east coast gun.

Honestly I doubt we will see Leopold address this. I may need to go back again and look at the results again but even the failed scopes are still “minute of deer” out to 150-200 maybe? So their “bread and butter” customers might never actually see a problem.

Leupold has addressed this. They did a special live Q&A webcast on another site to address the issue. It was an utter disaster. They had two terrible representatives deny everything and berate their customer base. Literally, that’s all they did. Totally dodged the very issue that was the reason for the event in the first place. Based on that stunt alone, I’ll never buy another Leupold.

 

[Fowl Play]

@Formidilosus what rifles are you testing with. Now that you've opened this can of worms for me, it's got me thinking if my rifle will even retain zero via the same test platform. Tested any Tikka T3x Superlites? If you have, and they failed don't tell me lol

 

[BlackTail]

I think there’s 3 reasons that Leupold not only survives, but thrives. One, most hunters don’t even know where their rifle is zeroed. “2 inches high at 100 yards is dead on at 200 yards”! Is it? Are you exactly 2” high? Or is it 1.8”? Is it dead on at 200? Or is it zeroed at 211? Or 217? Most haven’t even shot their gun at their actual zero distance? Two, they don’t shoot enough to even know there is a problem. A couple shots at 100 yards before the season. Make a few adjustments and there we are! Back to “2 inches high at 100”! I’d guess most hunters don’t shoot more than 5-8 shots a year and all at 100 yards. And finally, most hunters don’t shoot far enough for any of it to matter!! Across the country I’d wager a guess that over 95% of big game is shot inside 250 yards. You could have a full 2 MOA loss of zero on a gun you didn’t even know it’s true zero distance to begin with and you’re probably still killing deer out to 250 or more. Then they come on here and say how their Leupold’s have never had a problem and never let them down.

 

[fwafwow]

Leupold has addressed this. They did a special live Q&A webcast on another site to address the issue. It was an utter disaster. They had two terrible representatives deny everything and berate their customer base. Literally, that’s all they did. Totally dodged the very issue that was the reason for the event in the first place. Based on that stunt alone, I’ll never buy another Leupold.

Is that still available for replay?

 

[Fowl Play]

Leupold has addressed this. They did a special live Q&A webcast on another site to address the issue. It was an utter disaster. They had two terrible representatives deny everything and berate their customer base. Literally, that’s all they did. Totally dodged the very issue that was the reason for the event in the first place. Based on that stunt alone, I’ll never buy another Leupold.

You been able to find a youtube recording of it? Would love to watch it.

 

[fwafwow]

I have always had this image of a black cowboy hat dude with a bandana around his neck talking about checking zero when you get to a hunt. You hop off the plane, gun has been in a case but it's bounced around in flight, plus all the other transport stuff. Gotta check zero, if you can't shoot, use this laser thing.


Honestly, it was my experience that it's what you needed to do. Check, and actually readjust zero all the time, just from typical use.
Don't forget to beat on your turret too so everything actually moves like it's supposed to.


I mean damn, I'm really a bowhunter. If I travel to hunt, it's with a bow. I spent years not trusting that a truck gun in my Farm truck was still dialed in week to week, yet I could take a bow near cross country and didn't worry.

Guess you only know what you know, or don't know what you don't know. I think that's what the real phrase is.

Like this?

 

[Fowl Play]

I think there’s 3 reasons that Leupold not only survives, but thrives. One, most hunters don’t even know where their rifle is zeroed. “2 inches high at 100 yards is dead on at 200 yards”! Is it? Are you exactly 2” high? Or is it 1.8”? Is it dead on at 200? Or is it zeroed at 211? Or 217? Most haven’t even shot their gun at their actual zero distance? Two, they don’t shoot enough to even know there is a problem. A couple shots at 100 yards before the season. Make a few adjustments and there we are! Back to “2 inches high at 100”! I’d guess most hunters don’t shoot more than 5-8 shots a year and all at 100 yards. And finally, most hunters don’t shoot far enough for any of it to matter!! Across the country I’d wager a guess that over 95% of big game is shot inside 250 yards. You could have a full 2 MOA loss of zero on a gun you didn’t even know it’s true zero distance to begin with and you’re probably still killing deer out to 250 or more. Then they come on here and say how their Leupold’s have never had a problem and never let them down.

I think that's really the thing. This is probably actually not an issue for 95% of hunters. If your rifle takes a hard fall you should be checking your zero before shooting at game again regardless of what optic you have on the top. If you're doing that before every season, keeping your shots under 200, and checking zero's if you drop it. No reason to switch optics.

Now, for those that want to dial for longer shots and have a bomb proof setup, get one of the bombproof scopes. But... I need to actually see these reticles in person, my first look is I hate them all for a hunting rifle. Especially when I actively try to keep my shots short.

 

[SDHNTR]

Is that still available for replay?

No. It’s been mysteriously nuked. It was a disgusting display of ineptitude, denial and arrogance on the part of Leupold.

 

[fwafwow]

No. It’s been mysteriously nuked. It was a disgusting display of ineptitude, denial and arrogance.

Do you remember the names of either of the Leopold reps? It’s sometimes surprising what makes it to YouTube

 

[SDHNTR]

Do you remember the names of either of the Leopold reps? It’s sometimes surprising what makes it to YouTube

I don’t. There was a page several miles long on 24 hour campfire about it. I’m sure you can search and find it, but I don’t remember names mentioned. It was a couple of their flat brimmed bros.

 

[sbaker0029]

If your rifle takes a hard fall you should be checking your zero before shooting at game again regardless of what optic you have on the top.

I think that's the point of the drop test. You're testing your rifle system to make sure it holds zero no matter what;
fall from leaning against the tree (18" drop), fall off tailgate of truck (36" drop), fall with gun slung (36ish" drop), gun strapped to outside of pack and pack falls over on some rocks when you take it off and sit it down (18-24" drop), pulling gun up to a stand and pull rope breaks a few feet off the ground.

If you've tested your scope and rifle system, regardless of optic and rifle used, and it holds zero according to Forms drop test, you shouldn't have to worry about checking your zero during the middle of a hunt because you know it holds zero.

Thankfully Form has done testing on several scopes to give us an idea of what scopes are going to do the one job they were designed to do, hit exactly where you're putting the reticle.
Also need to thank Ryan and a few fellow roksliders for providing scopes to test and ammo.

 

[Fowl Play]

I think that's the point of the drop test. You're testing your rifle system to make sure it holds zero no matter what;
fall from leaning against the tree (18" drop), fall off tailgate of truck (36" drop), fall with gun slung (36ish" drop), gun strapped to outside of pack and pack falls over on some rocks when you take it off and sit it down (18-24" drop), pulling gun up to a stand and pull rope breaks a few feet off the ground.

If you've tested your scope and rifle system, regardless of optic and rifle used, and it holds zero according to Forms drop test, you shouldn't have to worry about checking your zero during the middle of a hunt because you know it holds zero.

Thankfully Form has done testing on several scopes to give us an idea of what scopes are going to do the one job they were designed to do, hit exactly where you're putting the reticle.
Also need to thank Ryan and a few fellow roksliders for providing scopes to test and ammo.

Yep this now adds something to my setup I had not considered before. A proof test.... but do I really want to drop my rifle.... ugh. Guess I should if I really want to be able to have confidence in my setup if I have a drop in the field. In aerospace we typically do a 1.5x proof with 5 min hold for static loads.... this is not static though.... with so many different variables (angles, surface hardness, etc.) In reality, I do not think you could ever fully qualify a rifle system to the point that with 100% confidence it has still retained zero after a significant drop.

Unless.... maybe I should open up a shop with a vibration and shock table and then produce some sort of qualification program for rifles setups... send the rifle in, put it through the house of pain, if it passes -- you have a field qualified setup for XXX condition... something like that would be the only way.

I like this test.... I also think if you take these results incorrectly you are giving yourself a false sense of confidence. It does not matter what rifle and scope setup you have. I do not think anyone can operate under the assumption it has still retained zero unless you have done truly extensive testing with your own setup... Testing that would probably make your setup look like shit... so I doubt very few are actually going to do it.

 

[Mountainrancher]

I think that's the point of the drop test. You're testing your rifle system to make sure it holds zero no matter what;
fall from leaning against the tree (18" drop), fall off tailgate of truck (36" drop), fall with gun slung (36ish" drop), gun strapped to outside of pack and pack falls over on some rocks when you take it off and sit it down (18-24" drop), pulling gun up to a stand and pull rope breaks a few feet off the ground.

If you've tested your scope and rifle system, regardless of optic and rifle used, and it holds zero according to Forms drop test, you shouldn't have to worry about checking your zero during the middle of a hunt because you know it holds zero.

Thankfully Form has done testing on several scopes to give us an idea of what scopes are going to do the one job they were designed to do, hit exactly where you're putting the reticle.
Also need to thank Ryan and a few fellow roksliders for providing scopes to test and ammo.

I think form has said before that part of the drop test is to see that a scope can withstand being dropped. The other part though is that the drop test is a way with to speed up the testing of a scopes long term durability. With a relatively low round count and short amount of time it helps show what a scope will do in the long run. I believe forms said before that a scope that passes the drop test will almost never lose zero from “normal” use ie riding in trucks, being strapped to packs, flights and high round counts. That’s what interests me most about the testing that form does here, it’s not “oh I took a slip on a hunt and banged up my scope a bit but I know it’s good to keep hunting” it’s that I don’t need to worry about my zero being off wether my guns been in the safe or in the back of my truck for 3 months.

 

[Randonee]

Thankfully Form has done testing on several scopes to give us an idea of what scopes are going to do the one job they were designed to do, hit exactly where you're putting the reticle.
Also need to thank Ryan and a few fellow roksliders for providing scopes to test and ammo.

Yes, I’ll double this thank you!

 

[Kurts86]

This test is meant to be an accelerated wear/durability test. It’s no different than when a manufacturer imparts 20 years of wear and tear with constant lab testing over a few months.

High round counts, dialing and drops will quickly find issues that a casual hunter might not see in a lifetime especially if their accuracy requirement is 10 MOA or more.

Sage Dynamics does a nearly identical series of tests with pistol red dots. Zero check after 2000 rounds, 4 chest high drops, 500 rounds as fast as possible. The results of those tests are then referenced against real world failure data from law enforcement departments and training classes. You can call it Bro science but it’s nearly identical to what R&D engineers do in the lab to approximate field use.

 

[Rob5589]

I'm sure there are plenty of guys that get a zero, head out for the hunt, miss a shot or four, and say they just weren't on that day. Pack it up until next season and repeat, never knowing that it was entirely possible it was their sighting system. Maybe scope, maybe rings, maybe base. Forms test gun is literally glued together sans scope and rings. Remember that POS Zeiss he tested? Well, not such a POS after all as it ended up being the rings, not the optic. Whether you want to drop your stuff or not, at least make sure you have a solid and proven set up; base, rings, optic.