Puffy jackets

[sacklunch]

I’m looking to drop a truck payment on a high end puffy jacket. I’ve narrowed it down I think to the KUIU Superdown pro or the stone glacier Grumman. Just looking for any advice or thoughts on these if anyone has used one or both on the mountain.


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suggest you do some reading on fill weight/power and baffle construction...neither of these is what id consider warm. previous owner of a grumman, I wouldnt wear it past September out west and expect to stay warm.

 

[cmahoney]

I bought a Kuiu super down pro a couple years ago, the shell is way to fragile. I have tenacious tape all over it now. It’s very warm and very light but I won’t be buying from them anymore. Check out where it’s made.

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[MtnMuley]

I own em both along with several others. I normally take the Grumman when I'm in the back country because it compresses well and seems to keep me warm enough. Leaks a lot more feathers than I expected. I'd definitely size up on it. The SD Pro is bulkier and seems warmer for me on many hunts. I like the Sitka WS the best for the down puffys when bulk and packing aren't an issue. I'd also look at the Kifaru LPP. Synthetic has its advantages as well at times. Overall, I don't feel there's a specific puffy that wins every category. I haven't tried a Black Ovis, but wouldn't overlook them. Especially at the price.

 

[Watrdawg]

I have the Sitka WS and a Black Ovis. Both work very well. Of course the Sitka WS is warmer but its a lot bulkier also. As others have said for the money the Black Ovis is hard to beat but it's definitely not as warm as the Sitka.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

suggest you do some reading on fill weight/power and baffle construction...neither of these is what id consider warm. previous owner of a grumman, I wouldnt wear it past September out west and expect to stay warm.

What jackets would you recommend?

 

[prm]

How warm of a puffy are you looking for? They can vary tremendously. Describe how you want to use it and the conditions and then you’ll likely get some more applicable recommendations.

 

[nobody]

One more consideration is weight with all these puff jackets. There are warmer puffy coats out there than the ones you’re looking at, but not warmer for the weight and packability. Neither is designed to be your only warm layer on a November 3rd season hunt in Colorado, but coupled with some other layers you’ll be toasty. And on mid and early season hunts you’ll be sweating from the warmth they provide.

An ultralight puff jacket is only one piece of a layering kit. If you’re cold with a coat like the Grumman down coat on, you’re not layering right. It isn’t designed to be a standalone coat on late season hunts the same way as something like a Kuiu Superdown Burner Parka is. The warmth to weight/fill to weight ratio of that coat is unmatched on the market, but when compared to a standalone coat/parka then yeah it’s not gonna be warm enough.

 

[nobody]

Kudos to SG but what was demonstrated is replicable with other manufacturers and their products. This demo showed the importance of being able to "bake" your clothes dry which requires each layer to transfer the moisture to the next outer layer.


Here's the link to Sitka article:

The Darkroom: A Navy SEAL Rewarming Drill | SITKA Gear

"The deal is, if you spend enough time out there, you’re going to get wet on a brutally cold day. And how are you going to keep warm? How are you going to get everything dry and keep going?” - Big Game Product Manager John Barklow<br />

www.sitkagear.com

True, you are exactly right. That’s what SG is showing.

That said, what they proved is that their treated down will generate the heat, but then it won’t saturate with the moisture that is baked/moved away from your body. Most down layers immediately lose all insulation when they get moist, which is why heavy wool has kept its place in military applications and even cold, wet hunting environments. What SG proved is that not only would their puff coat generate the heat, but it wouldn’t do what most down layers do when they get damp, which is loose insulation value. The moisture can move through the down and into the atmosphere instead of soaking into it and saturating it.

But you’re correct, the base layers are important. If you buy the treated down but then wear a cotton t-shirt underneath, you’re effed. You have to have your system set up properly from skin layer out.

 

[sacklunch]

What jackets would you recommend?

Alot of "it depends" in that answer...what season, what states, expected temps, are you hot or cold by nature, sitting and glassing alot, walking all day, etc?

Grumman is fine for September for me, but so is just a good fleece mid layer like the arcteryx leaf Naga hoodie.

The two puffies I own now are the montbell alpine...7.1oz of 800 fill with box baffles. My synthetic is a stone glacier cirque.

 

[Thinkingman]

I think the Black Ovis 850 is pretty solid, especially at that price point.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

I think the Black Ovis 850 is pretty solid, especially at that price point.

Camofire has them for a great price occasionally

 

[prm]

My puffy is a Kifaru Lost Park. Only required when temps really drop and I’m not doing much activity like glassing or sitting around camp.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

True, you are exactly right. That’s what SG is showing.

That said, what they proved is that their treated down will generate the heat, but then it won’t saturate with the moisture that is baked/moved away from your body. Most down layers immediately lose all insulation when they get moist, which is why heavy wool has kept its place in military applications and even cold, wet hunting environments. What SG proved is that not only would their puff coat generate the heat, but it wouldn’t do what most down layers do when they get damp, which is loose insulation value. The moisture can move through the down and into the atmosphere instead of soaking into it and saturating it.

But you’re correct, the base layers are important. If you buy the treated down but then wear a cotton t-shirt underneath, you’re effed. You have to have your system set up properly from skin layer out.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the superiority of treated down.

Experience #1: Had a sleeping bag that used treated-down and it was the worst damn bag I've ever owned. It would not wick away moisture. No matter the temperature outside, the bag would wet out from natural perspiration and I'd freeze. Didn't matter if it was in the 60s or the 30s.

Experience #2: My WM MegaLite bag uses untreated down. However, it's foot box took a direct hit from a monsoon that dumped several inches of rain over a couple of hours. During the storm the decibel range was in the low to mid-90s. This bag should have failed and been worthless if what the "experts" claimed was true. There was 1-2" of water pooled on top of the bag, the top half was damp, and there was another 1-2" pooled on top of the bottom half (not yet soaked). I poured the water out and hopped in. Somehow this "inferior" bag kept my feet warm and was completely dry in the morning.

Experience #3: More than once I've "baked" my soaked shirt and/or hoodie dry with a down puffy. Seen other friends and hunters do the same; this is with a variety of puffy manufacturers using various treated and untreated down. If what the "experts" claimed is true, then the untreated down puffies should be failing left and right and only the treated down should be able to wick away the sweat and keep the wearer warm.

 

[Benjblt]

Also, keep in mind that First Lite will be coming out with a waterproof insulated jacket soon. It would be heavier but theoretically more durable and warmer.

 

[DWinVA]

If synthetic is an option a custom Enlightened Equipment Torrid is made in the USA.

God Bless.

 

[68Plexi]

Never worn a Grumman, but I do own a Superdown Pro. One feature that hasn’t been mentioned is the SD Pro has pit zips. While it’s not a jacket I’m going to hike in much, I found them very useful at maintaining temperature while light hiking was required. Mostly between glassing spots in late season weather instead of taking it off and on.


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[nobody]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the superiority of treated down.

Experience #1: Had a sleeping bag that used treated-down and it was the worst damn bag I've ever owned. It would not wick away moisture. No matter the temperature outside, the bag would wet out from natural perspiration and I'd freeze. Didn't matter if it was in the 60s or the 30s.

Experience #2: My WM MegaLite bag uses untreated down. However, it's foot box took a direct hit from a monsoon that dumped several inches of rain over a couple of hours. During the storm the decibel range was in the low to mid-90s. This bag should have failed and been worthless if what the "experts" claimed was true. There was 1-2" of water pooled on top of the bag, the top half was damp, and there was another 1-2" pooled on top of the bottom half (not yet soaked). I poured the water out and hopped in. Somehow this "inferior" bag kept my feet warm and was completely dry in the morning.

Experience #3: More than once I've "baked" my soaked shirt and/or hoodie dry with a down puffy. Seen other friends and hunters do the same; this is with a variety of puffy manufacturers using various treated and untreated down. If what the "experts" claimed is true, then the untreated down puffies should be failing left and right and only the treated down should be able to wick away the sweat and keep the wearer warm.

Interesting to note, thanks for sharing! I'll admit I'm not an expert, so I'll stand corrected if my above statement isn't true.

 

[nobody]

Never worn a Grumman, but I do own a Superdown Pro. One feature that hasn’t been mentioned is the SD Pro has pit zips. While it’s not a jacket I’m going to hike in much, I found them very useful at maintaining temperature while light hiking was required. Mostly between glassing spots in late season weather instead of taking it off and on.


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Didn't know that about the Kuiu, that's a definite pro if a guy doesn't mind the added ounces from a zipper.

 

[Runningwater]

Not much to add, other than a puffy would be right up at the top of my list of least important that it be from a hunting clothing brand vs a mountaineering brand. Right up there with base layers. That said, most high $ puffys are pretty nice and I'm sure you'll be happy with whichever you end up with. You can also add me to the list of those uncertain if treated down is a positive or a negative. Good luck!

 

[Allen-samsal19]

Awesome info from everyone love all the great feedback you get from rokslide compared to Facebook! Really good points made and being that I already have a lighter 650 down I think I’m gonna aim more towards the bulkier KUIU sd pro or maybe the Sitka if I can find one, I believe they’re discontinued now. Thanks for the info good luck to everything this season!


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